azurelunatic | Political Visibility: getting out from undercover.

msscribe: To Gays and Lesbians On Why They Need To Get Black

Seriously, I ran into this, as a pagan, with undercover Christians. I seriously thought that all Christians were the Enemy, because I'd never met a genuinely nice person who turned out to mention that they were Christian.

Now I've got Darkside, Dawn,

shywickedpixie,

kellinator,

wiredferret,

theferrett, and others who have proved otherwise to me.

Religion and sexual orientation isn't generally obvious on one's skin the way race often is. It's up to us to make it obvious. Unless the prejudices of one's family, friends, and co-workers are stronger than their established liking/respect for you, they may well take it in stride. (Two notable exceptions: when an underage teen declares their sexuality, a responsible family member may feel it their duty to re-guide a clearly misguided youth; when one's co-workers already dislike one, being of a religion/orientation they don't like either is likely to make things worse rather than better.)

I have some Very Visible buttons on my Purple Hat, and I'll be wearing that, now that it's cool enough.

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What pisses me off, as I said elsewhere, is that if I preach what I believe on a regular basis, I'm a nut, and if I don't mention it then I get no credit for it.

We exist. Please remember that, folks.

I'd be happy if you counted me as one of the nice Christians.

I think the key is that word: preach. Most people don't like to be preached to, or worse, preached at.

If you can convey the message "I'm a Christian, and this is why I do X" or "You know, I just wanted you to know that I'm a Christian" or even "Gosh, it really annoys me when people go around doing X in the name of Christ, cause I don't think He'd like that," without conveying the message that the other person needs to become Christian themselves or that there's something wrong with not being Christian, and then just live in well, a Christ-like way, people are not going to think you're crazy?

But most people don't like it when you try to convert them to your religion unless they're actively searching for religious belief.

But most people don't like it when you try to convert them to your religion unless they're actively searching for religious belief.

I agree, but that's largely the problem that I have with a lot of the left. The rule is not "Free speech for everyone!" but rather "Free speech as long as they don't bother me," which is an entirely different beast.

If a guy wants to try to convert me to Wumpus-worshipping, fine. That's his right. Doesn't make him bad, doesn't make him dumb, and as long as I can turn him down without being threatened or can leave the room, it's fine. Wumpus-worship important to him, and the idea that "throwing ideas in people's faces is rude" is largely anathema to me and to free speech in general.

"Free speech" and "etiquette" aren't necessarily opposing concepts, but they're pretty darn close sometimes. I have the absolute right to tell my stepmum that the dress she is wearing is ugly, tell complete strangers on the street that what they eat is disgusting, and tell my boss that she's a nasty piece of work--and if that's my opinion, the Constitution protects that right, but you know, that doesn't make it a good idea. The law will protect me from adverse legal consequences, but it can't protect me from people thinking I'm rude, and a crashing bore, and generally to be avoided.

If you want to not be thought rude, then you have to not do things that are generally considered rude--and telling people that everything they believe is wrong and that they need to believe what you believe, is generally considered rude.

Rude. Not illegal. You can do it all you want and no one will stop you, unless you're doing it in a government position where you're not legally allowed to advocate a particular religion, for obvious reasons. But you can't do it and make people like it.

People don't like to have other people tell them what to do or how to live or what to believe. This is human nature, and not my fault. I am going to suggest to you, having recently decided to (perhaps even formally) change my religious affiliation, that what draws people to do this is not preaching and not lectures, but rather, good examples, and interesting discussions which present ideas in such a way as to make people consider their merits objectively rather than just tune you out. Preaching and lectures are more likely to drive people away from than into your belief system, or Wumpus-man's.

Sometimes I wish I could be a Christian again.

And then I remember something about it being very bad to put your hand to the plow and look back. So I have no choice.

Thank you, dear. *hugs*

I'm Christian too.

That's a great similarity that I've rarely heard discussed: "Religion and Sexual Identity" == "Unapparent". They are both concealable to major degrees. Both of these identities do not leap out at people like rays of light do. Instead, they must be projected through art or speech. We have little control over our perceived race, but much control over our perceived sexuality.

On the other hand, I wonder how much a person chooses to identify with a certain religion. Do we have more control over our beliefs than we do over our sexuality? I remember having almost constant skepticism about Methodism and Christianity as I grew up, and that has eventually led me to identify as Atheist.

So, I wonder, maybe we could do more to encourage people to come out of their relgious closet to help offset the heavy-handed moralists. There is probably greater religious diversity than sexual diversity in America.

Excellent.

Though there are certain things that people link as stereotypical to a sexual orientation, though the modern fop has taken over some of the stereotypical "gay" thing. ("Metrosexual" is such a turn-off word to me -- fop is a good old word.)

Ah! You're definitely on the list, then -- I just didn't know that you belonged there!

Woodwork, I say. Almost all of the nice Christians are in the woodwork.

*hugs*

Well-said. I approve of both the message, and the polite restraint.

You're very welcome.

Diversity in friends, and being aware of the diversity in one's friends, keeps a lot of people from being narrow-minded asshats.

Probably because for most people, one of the definitions of "nice" includes "does not try to sell religion, or other things, to friends."

*nods*

Though I'd still consider someone nice if they let one know that things were for sale if I happened to be in the market.

It's definitely amusing to me that I prefer book evangelism over religious evangelism.

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