It's going to be all over the friendspage, of course.

[azurelunatic]

The serious news villain of my childhood, Saddam Hussein, is dead.

It couldn't have happened to a nicer insane genocidal dictator -- but -- the trial was a mockery and a human rights disaster. Killing the man in a kangaroo court is not the action of a civilized and just nation.

I was raised largely Quaker. I have serious doubts about putting properly convicted and fairly tried criminals to death. Some parts of me think it's just and proper for those who have done things that are that bad, but other, more civilized, parts, say that two deaths are worse than one and it doesn't bring back anyone, and goodness only knows if it deters people. Example or martyr? At least the criminals in question don't go on to do worse things in this lifetime. Nor do the falsely convicted innocent. Nor can anyone who's dead make any further action towards healing.

I know I hear my mother's voice in there. I hear the voices of the Friends Meeting.

There are ten thousand people who have argued both sides on the issue of death for seriously vile criminals. I argue with myself about it a lot when it comes up. I don't expect to reach any kind of conclusion with myself for a long time. I think it's good that I argue it when it comes up. It keeps me from getting too settled on the issue. I'm meant to be uncomfortable about it. I like being uncomfortable about it. If I should stop being uncomfortable about the prospect of state-sanctioned execution, I wouldn't like the person I'd become.

Comments

[iblis-kukl.livejournal.com]

Just wanted to say

[xanateria.livejournal.com]

I agree with your take on it, but especially that...

If I should stop being uncomfortable about the prospect of state-sanctioned execution, I wouldn't like the person I'd become.

Made me go...yeah...what she said.

[pauamma]

Hmm, Slobodan Milosevic didn't die of old age, he died of heart problems (deliberately self-inflicted, according to one theory).

As to Judith Miller, I'm not sure who she is or what she did, but how many deaths do you claim she has some responsibility for?

[karlita.livejournal.com]

A very well-thought-out post, which resonates with me, and mine.

When I wrote my post last night, I expected a lot of negative comments and fall-out, and I surprisingly got none.

Perhaps there are more of us, out here in the Intelligent Universe, who realize that violence begets violence.

[myrrhianna.livejournal.com]

Well said.

I can't feel comfortable with the forceful taking of any life unless there is a serious need for it (such as you need meat or something, and I'm pretty sure they didn't roast him for lunch.) I cried a few tears for him, because any chance of redemption and forgiveness in this life was taken from him. *sigh*

[azurelunatic]

I think there'd have been fall-out if you had been arguing that he was a good person. Instead, you were arguing against the method of punishment. There's really nothing that can be said to sway someone who believes wholeheartedly that no one should be killed for a crime, even if that crime was mass murder.

Re: Just wanted to say

[azurelunatic]

Thank you.

I have a very limited trust of government, and they should be protecting life rather than taking it away.

[azurelunatic]

...I wouldn't want to eat him for lunch.

[myrrhianna.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't either...at his age I'm sure he would be too tough and stringy to make a decent roast. Though perhaps pressure cooked, or in a stew.... Nah, that wouldn't work either. I just couldn't guarantee the flavor.

[azurelunatic]

*is profoundly disturbed*

He had Mad Dictator Disease, anyway.

[cawingcrow.livejournal.com]

You said pretty much how I've been feeling about the whole situation. Personally the only time I'm even remotely close to the capital punishment concept is if it is a situation where the person cannot be reasonably confined and is still a danger to society. Even then I have qualms, though the practical side wins out. There are very few people who cannot be safely contained once taken into custody (and actual guilt is usually very apparent--the mental health issue then comes into play, which is another one that bothers me a lot in the way the death penalty is used and abused in this country and others).

In this particular instance, the lack of knowledge of guilt is blessedly taken care of by his excesses, and at least one friend of mine has argued that he can't be reasonably and safely contained with so many partisans about, but it was such an obvious kangaroo court that I suspect it leaves somewhat of a slimy feeling even in all but the most gung-ho "kill-them-all" types. But I could be wrong about that -- I overestimate people sometimes. I don't think the world is a bad place for his being gone from it, but the way he was removed was rather questionable.

[myrrhianna.livejournal.com]

*tries not to be so disturbing*

True, so he wouldn't be suitable under any circumstances. I wish there was another answer than killing him in this way, though. I understand the political ramifications of it, though...the US has it's hands clean of the killing (because technically it was the Iraqi government that did it) but I don't like the moral ramifications.

[azurelunatic]

I'd probably have been drinking a toast to the improvement of world health if he'd dropped dead of causes more natural than a broken neck and/or strangulation.

[azurelunatic]

Maybe he'll reincarnate sane.

[pyrogenic.livejournal.com]

At least the criminals in question don't go on to do worse things in this lifetime.

A lesson never learned by James Bond's nemeses. You know, long overly theatrical death schemes leading to escape and further bloodshead. Maybe this connection is more tenuous than I originally thought.

[azurelunatic]

Heh.