azurelunatic | Career or not, the standards have been declining.

Career or not, the standards have been declining.

This course sounds far more like a remedial housework course than a college course. I've seen this linked around, and I know there have got to be details to the coursework that I'm totally not getting, but I guess I just don't get how this is a college-level home ec class, rather than a high-school level class, or, if offered to people above high-school age, a remedial one.

There are certain things that people ought to be able to do, at certain levels of household competence. And if you can't, that's a shame, and it does need to be corrected, although I would not exactly think first of college courses when looking to correct that shortcoming.

Heinlein said: "A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly." This guy is trying to develop a "Heinlein Maneuver Program", aimed at young men (but I would say that the same principles would apply to a young woman) -- I'd be interested to see where he goes with that.

The number one task on the average home ec curriculum is cooking. At the kindergarten level, one should be able to operate a microwave with supervision, pour a beverage without much spilling, and assemble prepared components into one to five different meals. (Example: peanut butter and jelly sandwich, meat and cheese sandwich, hot dog; mix and match with celery sticks, carrot sticks, apple slices, grapes, bananas.) Basic food safety such as "do not eat that: it has been on the floor." Basic nutrition such as the necessity of vegetables and fruits, and the necessity of eating the main course of one's meal before advancing to the dessert portion.

At the elementary level, add supervised use of a stove or oven, a wider range of meals from prepared components, and some venturing into areas that need more preparation. Food safety should include the number of times you can microwave that thing, and not leaving it sitting out so it goes bad. Basic nutritional requirements need to be introduced, including the ratio of sugar to other carbohydrates (more than half sugar indicates this is likely dessert, not breakfast: think pop tarts!).

Junior high school level cooking involves basic recipe reading and execution, although nothing particularly fussy about imprecise measurements or rough handling. Must be able to select a balanced meal, although it doesn't necessarily have to taste good together. Someone with a junior high education in cooking should be able to fend for themselves for a week in the absence of adult oversight in cooking and meal selection without any further training or intervention, because something like that may hit them in high school.

High school level involves enough food chemistry to be able to make substitutions in recipes or create new recipes, precise measurements and exact handling, menu planning. Could be certified for a food handler's card after training. Must be able to operate all standard-issue kitchen devices, given instructions. High school level training in cooking should leave one suited to cooking for oneself and possibly a household.

College level should include higher-level food chemistry, gourmet recipes and presentation, in-depth study of nutrition, some fun microbiology. It should not be necessary to have a college education in cooking in order to survive on one's own without someone cooking for you.

Clothing: A kindergartener should be able to dress him or herself, possibly excluding the tying of shoes if Velcro is on the scene, and make basic wardrobe decisions, such as whether to wear Transformers or Power Rangers today.

An elementary school student should be able to tie shoes, pick out a complete outfit suited to the weather and basic situation (rough play vs. Nicely Dressed), and know the basic mechanics of sewing by hand (thread a needle!) and using a sewing machine (with supervision for younger years). Upper grades should be able to follow a simple pattern, such as making a pillow or pillow case, and optionally knit or crochet.

Junior high: select a season's wardrobe for purchase, follow a simple pattern, troubleshoot basic sewing machine problems, patch a hole.

High school: Dress for any general occasion, including elements such as style of clothing, quality of fabric and construction, and color coordination (with the event and one's own personal coloring). Dress others for any general occasion. Follow a reasonably complex pattern, or modify a simple pattern to suit the exact circumstances. Alter ill-fitting clothing in basic ways. Multi-year wardrobe planning and maintenance. Use ready-made dye.

College: Pattern creation and following complex patterns. Costuming. Fashion design. And I don't know enough about it to know what else you can do with clothing, really... Weaving. Knowing the right fabric for the right application, and how to work with complicated and delicate fabrics. Leather. Dye chemistry.

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Dye chemistry, weaving, knitting and crochet (much tho I love them) should probably all be optional.

Dye chemistry is something the average dye chemical company would like the consumer to know nothing about. So you need at least a basic working knowledge of o-chem, excellent research skills, basic lab skills and tools, and more than a vague clue about how to do basic tests to really do much repeatably. Most women experimenting with dye and writing about it online are not doing repeatable things, and in some cases are taking serious safety risks.

Weaving, knitting and crochet are all relatively easy to learn, but require a lot of practice to reach a decent skill level. Not because they're hard skills, but because the average beginner doesn't trust his/her instincts and assumes they're doing it wrong.

Honey, it isn't about the course-work, or teaching college level skills/ideas...

It is about brainwashing, pure and simple.

"If we love the Scripture, we must do it," said Smith, who gave up her dreams of a career when her husband said it was time to have children. "We must fit into this role. It's so much more important than our own personal happiness."

Notice where it is located?
That would be why we refer to this as the Buckle of the Bible Belt so often.

The recipes they're making sound painfully simple- things easier than what we were doing by the sixth week of our training at Le Cordon Bleu.
Frankly, many of these women, if they really want to know how to have skills in that regard, would be better served by taking a couple of real cooking classes, and maybe some fiber arts at another school.
I'm not sure what that Baptist school would make of me, a man who knows how to cook better than they can, sew, knit, and do the other domestic things. Dad always told me I had to learn, because their might not be a woman around to do it for me, and I didn't want to have to resort to seamstresses and restaurants for everything. But hey, my boyfriend's not complaining about the cooking or homebrewing.

I figure anything past high school level should be optional. High school should have you able to function on your own. I suppose knitting or crocheting would be an elective, but it's simple enough and basic enough that it's well within the capabilities of a six-year-old to learn, if taught properly.

These aren't skills that you pick up on your own. Not without a whole lot of study and luck.

The brainwashing scares me to no end.

While I agree with the basic principles-

My junior HS home ec was a lot more advanced than what you're listing. Now, granted, this was often the girls' ONLY home ec- but we had to follow (horrible) recipes precisely, put together full balanced meals that worked together, set and decorate the table, and engage in appropriate chit-chat while eating. *eyeroll*

In sewing, we had to make a fairly complicated garment, following and adapting a pattern. One with darts, and either a waistband or facings.

Both of these 8th grade courses seem closer to your HS (and maybe college) requirements- and yet, most of my cohort found these requirements boringly trivial. Although I guess things have changed...

I think weaving is a bit specialized, even for college- although knowing something about different weaves would be useful. Dyeing and similar fabric techniques are cool and not that hard- good choices.

If one were to have a college-level cooking curriculum, I think it should be akin to some basic chef and/or pastry chef skills. Plus nutrition.

Hey- their home ec curriculum was stuff that I did in home ec in 8th grade, and was way below my- and at least half of my classmates'- skills at the time. And, honestly, some of my 8th grade curriculum was more demanding. Which is why we wanted to take shop- but that was Not Allowed at the time, for girls.

Yes, I am Older Than Dirt. :)

I adore the DIY attitude, and have it about a lot of things. And I think more people should! Basic survival skills- cooking, mending, household repairs- should be something everyone knows.

And homebrewing rocks!

I think that you would confuse that Baptist school quite mightily.

I can operate a sewing machine and sort of follow a pattern, and can follow a recipe without major disaster. I left my parents' house knowing how to do these things. Among modern kids leaving home, this makes me a golden goddess of household skills.

I wound up taking shop in 7th grade. It was very basic, but nice and soothing. I took that in favor of home ec.

Oddly, they are. There's a *lot* of self taught knitters and crocheters and weavers out there. Me included :). Well, I'm self taught on knitting and weaving. Crochet hurts my brain. Seems to be related to my problems with continental style knitting *g*.

Also, I literally *couldn't* learn to knit from standard teaching methods. Not at six, not later. We're not sure if it was all the knitters around me are the wrong style for my brain, or if it was just my coordination development was severely delayed. Either one is a safe bet. Teaching myself from a book worked fine tho when I was in my 20s, and I was doing cables within a month.

Dye is both pretty simple and deeply complex. I'm self taught there too, but with the advantage of a strong chemistry and art background. Once I got the principle that dyeing is a chemical reaction, and that the behavior is predictable, I got a lot better at producing a decent end product. I don't have the equipment to do an industrial dye lot, or to do a small reproducible one (one requires a Very Large Container, the other requires a Very Accurate Scale). But I can do a dye job and have a reasonable idea of what will come out. No luck needed, just brains and a willingness to accept the laws of chemistry. The more creative stuff wouldn't be *pretty* without my artistic sense, but that's something that's trainable.

I can:

Dye fabric, loose fiber, and yarn and have it come out the color or color scheme that I planned, using vat, cold pour, hot pour and resist techniques. Both cellulose and protein fibers. The object will only be felted if I wanted it felted.

Knit an adult garment, either following a pattern or of my own design.

Spin yarn. I don't count as an acceptable handspinner by medieval standards, as my singles aren't up to weaving. Maybe someday.

Weave simple fabric.

Hand sew well enough that I *could* make a garment that way, provided it was woven fabric.

I can follow a recipe, create my own recipes, plan a full balanced meal for 8+, set table, decorate table, and bean siblings or father for inappropriate chit chat. Also have decent grounding in nutrition, knife cuts, knife maintenance, novice pastry work, and probably pass a restaurant food safety course with minimal additional study.

Also can clean pretty much any household object (even delicate stuff like an antique quilt) without automatically destroying it.

I am mildly phobic about sewing machines, but I'm also mildly phobic about blenders and food processors. *shrug* Among my age cohort, I come off as some kind of domestic obsessive. I'm not, I was just taught how to do things as a matter of course. This means I can also do large chunks of my own car and house maintenance. Probably can't build a house to code, but I can certainly build a table.

None of this is particularly *difficult* stuff. It's just most people aren't taught and aren't expected to learn. Course, most people aren't expected to learn calculus either.

(no, I didn't learn any of this in home ec or shop. both courses were a joke, and the teachers wouldn't let me do things that I had already demonstrated I could do at home.)

I confused Warner Pacific Christian college's policies enough. I can only imagine what a more strict place would do if I wandered in.

I can knit basic objects. I can weave simple fabric, including relatively attractive tapestry and brocade. I also have some decent examples of my cross stitch about- the celtic knotwork chessboard, among others. If I must, I can embroider- I've been meaning to get around to embroidering the steam punk table linens for the dining room.
I can sew simple clothing, and do basic clothing repair.
My cooking is exemplary. I can turn out a meal for over a hundred people, and still impress them. I also know how to do it very cheap- a few years ago, we figured out that we could do a midsummer feast with wild boar, if I worked the menu right, for around $100 plus mead cost. I can, of course, do a variety of table settings and service styles for the aforementioned food. I can pair wine or mead with the food, and do it for about 1/3 the cost you'd expect to spend on alcohol.
I can organize events and festivities. I have coordinated a wedding. I also know all sorts of fun things to cut costs on large family or social events.
I can care for livestock, including troubleshooting some basic livestock health issues. Among the othe random crap I've picked up, once I milk the cow or goat, I can make good cheese out of it. On that note, I also know how to make the vinegar to curdle the milk for the cheese.
I can garden. I don't like it, but I can, and I can get a good yield out of it.
My homebrewing is acceptable. I can produce good meads, and some decent wines and other products for far less than the going market rate.
I can care for infants and small children.
Of course, I can do my own bloody laundry. Dad insisted- he told me there wouldn't always be a woman around to do it for me.
I'm not sure what the Baptist college would think of a man who's learned domestic skills far better than their women are learning. Good cooking does seem to keep my boyfriend happy with me- but good food makes everyone happy. The point is that none of these skills were difficult to learn. I could teach the women in that class far better than their instructors are doing, in far less time, and probably at far less expense.
I do think that these skills should be available in higher education- but for everyone. They're useful. I save my household a fair deal of money on food and wine alone. I'd probably save more if I could be coaxed to do more sewing. Having your spouse major in domestic arts could be cost effective- if they actually were learning enough to put a decent dent in household expenses by doing so.
Oh, and why aren't they having these women take basic accounting and investing? It's usually the wives who take care of household accounts, and in many housewife situations, the wife also acts as her husbands portfolio manager.

And why does the article mention home made quiche as if it's something special? Quiche is something you throw together in a few minutes to use up leftoevers- not an impressive gourmet feat. It's the alternative to leftover soup.

Ditto. I'm high on the domestic scale for my friends. I am, however, exceeded by Kat, who was raised to be a housewife but given professional training as a seamstress in case she wanted to follow a trade instead. Her mother and grandmother, appropriately, felt she shouldn't leave the house without the ability to be a good housewife, and a skill with which to support herself.
Becca's also got domestic skills, but Becca was raised by a domestic goddess in the deep south. She's constantly picking up new domestic skills, as well.

Yeah, and these women will likely be homeschooling their kids with a good dose of more of that. Remember the homeschooling scenes from Jesus Camp?
Did I ever tell you about the student mom had, whose father tried to take her out of school when she was twelve? He felt that it was time for her to stay home and learn to be a better housewife.

I do like the Do it yourself culture in Portland. It does, however, have its stupid points. A lot of the DIY kids will do things for the sake of doing it themself, "to fight the man", even when it ceases to be cost effective to make themselves. There's only so much time in a day, you might as well concentrate on such domestic activities as actually save you money. Of course, a lot of them just don't grasp that it's more expensive to do themselves- everything's cheaper if you do it, right?
And on that note, these women should be taking basic accounting. Most household accounting is done by the wives, anyways, along with the investing. I think their husbands would really appreciate it if these women knew how to properly invest the kids' college funds or their retirement fund.

They're not teaching money management because that's Man's Work. Different cultural backgrounds have different patterns for who manages the money. Jewish and Catholic families tend to default to the wife is the household money manager. The various branches of Protestant have different patterns, but often money is a Man Thing. It's not unusual to run into an older widow who has no idea where the family bank accounts are, never mind how to get access to the pension she inherited from her husband.

And well... my dad's a food scientist. If he were born female and was 10 years older, his degree would be a BA in Home Economics instead of a BS in Chemistry. This material has been taught at a collegiate level of difficulty before, and hopefully will be again. Right now, it's hard to get the material at a college level of difficulty without a focus on industrial use. But it is available.

Lots of people are delusional and think that mixing eggs and cream and making pie crust is some kind of miraculous feat. My pie crust is terrible, but I've never put in any serious effort to learn to do it well either. If I'd put in the effort on pie crust, I could do it well.

There are also lots of well educated people with college degrees who think making bread is hard. It is mind boggling but true.

Most people just can't cook because they're convinced it's terribly difficult. Rather like knitting, only about something more essential to their health and well being.

I'm planning to rely on having other skills so that after civilisation collapses I can engage in barter with the people that can do all that stuff.

In other words, I'm going to die.

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Career or not, the standards have been declining.

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