azurelunatic | Choices.

Choices.

The Little Fayoumis just got a choice.

He managed, in the attempt to be watching a movie, to knock over one of the Playstation controllers, which is never a good idea. I asked him how it happened. He didn't know. I told him that since he had knocked it over, he would not be able to watch a movie right away, but he would be allowed to watch a movie an hour from now, after 3:30

I heard the beginnings of a Big Noisy Fuss. I told him that he had a choice: either he could accept watching a movie later, and watch a movie after 3:30, or he could make a Big Noisy Fuss about it and get grounded from movies today.

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So you punished him for knocking over a videogame controller? Isn't that a little extreme?

Perhaps. But for this, his hands should not even have been near the gaming console, and one of the things that we are trying to get through to him is being careful with stuff. He has not historically been particularly careful with the PS2. Once he's in that habit, we can ease off. Until then, he will get in minor trouble for knocking the controllers off the shelf, until we're sure that it's unpreventable accident each time, versus accidents that could have been prevented if he'd been more careful.

It's amazing how quickly soda and milk stopped being spilled when they were replaced with not more soda but water, each time.

Delaying movie time an hour is not a big punishment. Grounding him completely from movie time for knocking over a controller would have been extreme. Grounding him from movie time for a Big Noisy Fuss... hehe. You have kids?

Nope... but I'm told I'm childish enough to look from their perspective.

Ok I didn't know that your entertainment unit had a parental guidance warning. That is a house rule and I guess he should have asked you to set things up for him.
What I was affraid of was that being a 5 year old (I'm pretty sure thats what you said he was), it might imprint the idea that accidents are unnacceptable even when there is no damage done. Playstation controllers are hardy things, it usually takes excessive use or heavy objects falling on them to break them, though I could see your point if it was the console that was knocked off of the shelf. Childrens psyches are hardened as they grow, and the "blows" they take are what shapes them. Everybody is affraid of mistakes and accidents to differing degrees, parental approval and discipline usually have something to do with this. I'm just saying something cause I don't like seeing children learning to be overly stressed about "the little things".

It just sounded a little strict to me. But I don't know the full story/situation so my point of view might be a little askew.

Good intentions in the soapbox,
Mike

He's pulled the console off the shelf before. He knows how to be careful around it. And accidents have consequences too.

Believe me, I remember being a kid. And I know him, and I know the difference between when he's fucking around and shit gets knocked over, and when he knows he wasn't being careful enough and stuff gets knocked over. When it's an accident, he gets that "Oh shit I'm sorry" look, and he gets hugged and the situation gets corrected. When it's him being careless, he usually doesn't notice that he just knocked something over, and if he does, he gets the "I'm innocent, really I am" look.

The potential grounding? He's been a royal pain in the ass about accepting penalties he knows are coming to him, and puts up a yelling screaming fuss about it. That is not acceptable.

Out of the three of us adults, he behaves best for me, and accepts the penalties for breaking the rules best when I lay it down for him.

*shrug*

He's a good kid, and I aim to keep him that way, and his grandmother's ass will be *fried* if she *ever* pulls another stunt like the thing she did with him holding the door for his great-aunt when the dog got out.

Of course he's going to throw a fuss if he thinks it's unfair. I kinda think it's unfair. I also feel that if you believe something to be unfair that you should stand up for yourself, otherwise you grow up to be a passive aggressive doormat. Prime examples of this are people who don't vote because they feel that it won't make a difference. Bush got put into office under dubious circumstances and alot of people grumbled but nobody stood against the supreme court and demanded that Palm Beach be allowed to hold it's recount, becuase they felt it was futile to even try. If he were being punished for actual damage then I'd say he should accept it, but since he's being punished for something that didn't result in damage I feel he was in the right to protest. It was like a victimless crime.

However the main issue is that you can teach someone to be too careful. Fear of breaking things, while a very good method for teaching caution I agree, can become a problem later. It's called anal retention. You might build a level of expectation that leads to an adulthood full of stress, and intolerence for people who don't meet the expectations he himself learned.
The focus of the punishment isn't on something having been broken, which is usually enough to develope a healthy attitude of caution. It's on the unlikely possibility of something getting broken. While I could see punishment suitable for things such as throwing a baseball in the house, I don't think that knocking something as hard as a game controller over while reaching for something else is something a child should be worrying about. Now glasses and dishes are another matter. I can understand teaching him to be careful around breakables like dishes and such, but not a game controller. What happens when he goes over to his friends house and see's his friend knock something over and not get punished for it? He'll likely either think that his friends parents are wrong or you are, which means he'll either respect his friends less or he'll resent you for being strict, not a good thing either way.

(PS I feel a little awkward criticising, so please tell me if I step over the line.)

The way he handles them when he is not being careful, they are breakable.

You are edging the line.

What happens when he goes over to his friends house and see's his friend knock something over and not get punished for it?

All children understand quite well that rules are different depending on the house you're in. ANY child knows that, very well. My foster sisters used to stop behaving the *instant* they stepped foot outside our doorstep and into the custody of their mother. It was like flipping a lightswitch; they knew they weren't under Nana's rules anymore, and they turned into royal brats. (Mind you, they were royally SCARED brats, too, but that's another story for another time.) It doesn't bother kids that there are different rules for different places. Hell, it doesn't bother grown-ups, either. It only bothers people who are worrying about "fair play" instead of looking at reality.

I live under a different set of rules at work than I do at home, and I don't think that's unfair. I behave under a different set of rules at my mother's house than I do at my mother-in-law's house. I behave differently at my ex-husband's house than I do at my mother-in-law's house. I treat my best friend differently than my girlfriend. These are all rules of behaviour based on nothing more than "different people have different standards". And everybody -knows- that, and everybody -gets- that, and kids get it just as easily as grown-ups do, and you're doing them a disservice (not to mention underestimating them a hell of a lot, and your own future kids are going to *so* wipe the floor with you) if you don't recognize how much more kids understand than you think.

When I was 10, I didn't think my friends' parents were wrong because their house was way cleaner than mine, and she had to keep the house that way...we just went and played at *my* house after I helped her with her housekeeping chores. Because as long as we picked up after ourselves, we could make messes, and my mom didn't mind us making noise. They were different people, with different standards, and we each loved our moms.

Now, Azz's little fayoumis knows the rules. She doesn't always bother to tell *us* the rules, 'cause this is not The News, this is her journal. She's keeping track of her own life, and we're just peeking in. I also happen to know that there's a time and place for a kid to argue about the set punishments, and that time and place is NOT WHEN THEY'RE BEING IMPOSED. LF can, some time when he's not in trouble, go to Azz or his mom and tell 'em that he's really really *trying* not to bump into the controller, and he's having a hard time, and they would *know* that, and not punish him for it. Or he could discuss the punishments that are set for it. Hell, *he* can call a family council if he needs to...

Or he could discuss the punishments that are set for it. Hell, *he* can call a family council if he needs to...

I've never heard of a 5 year old calling a family meeting. However since I'm guessing that you know the family better than I, I'll take that to mean that such happens on occasion. If so they live in a household far more civilized than any I have encountered.

You're right. Children do observe that things are different in other peoples houses and tend to act accordingly. I just stated that they don't always like it, but they do usually come to accept it.

More importantly you were right that I really had no business saying anything since it's not my household, and that it is her journal and not a place for debates. I'm still getting used to LJ ettiquette.

I appologize.

Happy friday the thirteenth. May your day be interesting but not altogether bad.

And you ought to see him when he's allowed to get away with doing even little things that he knows he's not allowed to do... two days at Grandma's, and he comes back a sullen, grumpy, pouting, fit-throwing little brat if he's punished for doing something that was big that he knows he wasn't supposed to do!

Spare the corner, spoil the child. I'd rather send him to the corner five times a day than spank him once a day.

Fair enough. I'll stop there then.

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Choices.

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Alot of these thoughts are coming intuitively so I must admit I have no book to support them.

Re: Alot of these thoughts are coming intuitively so I must admit I have no book to support them.

Re: Alot of these thoughts are coming intuitively so I must admit I have no book to support them.

Re: Alot of these thoughts are coming intuitively so I must admit I have no book to support them.

Re: Alot of these thoughts are coming intuitively so I must admit I have no book to support them.

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