Re-election nightmares (courtesy of calligrafiti)

[azurelunatic]

She doesn't trust Dubya to leave us free of the military draft. I hadn't thought about that, since I'm not accustomed to living in a state of uncomfortable and (by all measurements I can see) losing war. (Anyone remember "out of there by June 30"?)

And she brought up the "snog-your-buddies" approach to avoid being drafted (hell, if they want to make being queer a disqualification, I know a few guys who I suspect would suspend their homophobia for the greater good) and that left me with nice, nice mental images.


Fuck you, Dubya, for making me worry about the health and safety of my bondmates above and beyond the usual levels of everyday danger that they're in.

Bless you, calligrafiti, for bringing to my mind the diverting image of my bondmates snogging, for any reason whatsoever.

Comments

[iroshi.livejournal.com]

Oooh, thanks for reminding ME of one of the best nights of my life. :D

[azurelunatic]

Hee. This is how I know that neither of them is the True Platonic Ideal "Ideal Man" for me: they're both sooooo straight.

The sacrifices we have to make! *dramatic swoon*

[ataniell93.livejournal.com]

Actually the sad thing is that most of the bills to bring back the draft are being promoted by Democrats. I can see their point in that everyone from all social classes would then have to go, but I don't agree with it--I think military adventures outside our borders should be volunteer-only.

[azurelunatic]

What's your position on a draft for a National Guard, with the provision that National Guard would only be within the borders, and outside action would be volunteer-based, unless an outside action draft was called?

[ataniell93.livejournal.com]

I misspoke, apparently.

I feel more strongly about military adventures.

But I am 100% opposed to slavery. Involuntary servitude ought to have ended with the Emancipation Proclamation.

[boojum.livejournal.com]

If they start drafting women (which would probably make the conservative side explode, unless they limit it to nurses and linguists and computer folks -- a lot of those people don't as much care about women being in the line of fire as they do about women being able to shoot back), a number of women will then have simple responses to the draft board:










<singing>I kissed a girl...

[wibbble]

I'd always assumed that any draft done today would /have/ to include women.

AFAIK, in countries that have compulsory military service, women have to do it too. There's no reason for women not to be included - if they can serve in the regular army, then they can be drafted, too.

[boojum.livejournal.com]

Oh, although I disagree with the draft at all[1], I think it should be gender-blind. What I was trying to say is that I think a lot of the people who are wigged out by bis/gays in the military are also wigged out by women in the military. I was also being somewhat snarky that the people who don't want women in combat don't always care if the women are in roles that will get them shot at (field medicine and the like), which makes me wonder what, exactly, they're really objecting to women doing.

As it currently stands, young (18-24?) men have to register with the draft board as part of registration to vote or to drive or something like that. This could easily be changed to include women or they could just do a database search, but as of right now the gun's only pointing at men.

[1] The idea of mandatory national service is interesting, but I object to the idea of mandatory national soldiering.

[wibbble]

An idea I've always liked would be to limit the legal ownership of firearms to only those who've gone through voluntary two years national service.

Then you could give gun-ownership a new justification: in time of need, all those with firearms could be recalled to active duty, and would have had sufficient training to use their weapons in a safe manner.

Well, it works for Switzerland (only it's not optional service there, of course).

[crisavec.livejournal.com]

Not a completely bad idea...but what do you do about someone that didn't take up shooting(or had no interest) until later in life when they are too old to participate in any sort of service?

[wibbble]

I'd say that you're never too old - there's a 'youth culture' in a lot of the west that seems to imply that once you hit your 60s you're suddenly good for nothing.

Someone that old could be put through an alternate basic training, and put to work teaching people whatever it was they spent their life doing. If you've managed to survive to that age, you must have /some/ skills.

I suspect it's the same in the US, but here at least we're facing a massively ageing population, and a lot of the previous social prejudices about older people are going to have to change, since it's not going to be optional: people /are/ /going/ to have to work until they're older, and older people are going to comprise a higher percentage of the workforce than before. Companies need to adapt and see where they can use people with more experience.

If it's good enough for the corporate world, it'll do for the military. Sure, 60 year old (or even 50 year old) recruits aren't going to do much good on the battlefield, but that guy who spent his working life as a mechanic might be useful when it comes to servicing tanks, and the 50 year old school dinner lady will fit in just fine at the canteen.

[azurelunatic]

and the 60+ old school hacker can maintain legacy code probably better than some of the young punks right out of college.

[azurelunatic]

If someone is too old to even do desk work, I have doubts about their ability to handle a firearm safely.

[crisavec.livejournal.com]

You have to be registered with Selective Service within 30 days of your 18th birthday, and are eligable for the draft until 26. In the early days of the draft they actually took the older males first, but in Vietnam they started with the younger men, 18-19, and worked upwards as needed for that cycle of the draft.

As for claiming to be gay/bi to avoid service...wouldn't work unfortunately. If you're selected for the draft, you are inducted. Then you would be discharged, and you don't get an honorable discharge for being gay/bi. At best you get a general discharge, and in a wartime situation you'd most likely earn some prison time for it(the provisions are there for it, its just never used, and when you try and mess with the gov they WILL screw you over).

I Don't like the idea of "manditory" national service, but the idea of an entire nation of ex soliders running around giving the politicions the hives amuses me.

[boojum.livejournal.com]

Is a general discharge actually bad if you don't care about the military in the first place? I'd guess they'd be crankier about attempts to dodge the draft than about honest self-descriptions, but I don't know a lot about it.

Singing to the draft board is probably a bad idea, though.

[azurelunatic]

Show tunes?

Oh, I know -- The Tango Maureen.

[crisavec.livejournal.com]

Thats never been the case in the US, and to be honest I'd be surprised to see them do it.

[wibbble]

If I were American, and the draft was restarted, I'd sue the government for sexual discrimination because women are excluded.

Would the political will to restart the draft be there if the politicians thought that their daughters, as well as their sons, would be going off to war? (Well, not /their/ children, since they'll weasel around it, but at least the children of the people that vote for them.)

[tygerr.livejournal.com]

In the US, certain forms of gender-based discrimination are in fact legal.

There was an effort back in the 1970's to amend the US Constitution to put a stop to that. It was a long, heated, loud, and acrimonious battle on both sides, and in the end it was defeated. One of the more effective arguments used by the anti-egalitarian side was, in fact, that the proposed amendment would probably be interpreted to require that any military draft include...WOMEN (gasp).

Americans are squeamish about some pretty odd things....

[thette.livejournal.com]

That's not the case in Sweden. Women can register voluntarily, but men are drafted.

Of course, with the recent cuts of funding to the military, not even a third of the eligible men are actually doing their nine/twelve/fifteen/eighteen months anyway.

When sevenfingers (who is my younger brother) was at the registration office half a day's travel away, they sent him home immediately, and told him to go take care of his son.

[azurelunatic]

Hee. Hee!