Azure Jane Lunatic (Azz) 🌺 (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
azurelunatic) wrote2006-03-20 10:40 pm
azurelunatic) wrote2006-03-20 10:40 pm
(no subject)
A society that institutionalizes the Shameful Secret makes me profoundly uncomfortable. When ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
figment0 told me in all earnestness that it wasn't that LDS folks never made mistakes, it was that no one mentioned the mistakes that they'd made, and no one around them mentioned them either, in the idea that not talking about the mistakes would draw attention to the strengths of people, not their weaknesses.
The Figment does not have a way with words. His words often come out klutzy and half-backward, and sometimes reinforcing the exact opposite of what he intended, though the words are coming out almost right for what he wanted to say. Everything he said to reassure me that LDS was good and healthy for him and for everyone made me more likely to want to take him by the hand and flee screaming, except that I knew that he would not appreciate that. So I fled silently into the night. Sometimes he sends me postcards from Stockholm.
I am sure that in a tight-knit community, everyone knows everyone else's business, whether they want to or not. There's just no way to avoid knowing about it, sometimes. And it's very important to give people privacy, at least illusory privacy. It's also healthier to look to the future rather than dwelling on the past. But the impression that Figment gave was different. This impression was that while a problem was going on, appropriate help would be rendered -- but once the problem was past, the problem would never be referred to again, not even in the context of "I know what you are going through now, because I battled with that myself in the past, and it was a difficult fight."
If that's not the case, then Figment was communicating it badly.
If it is the case, that past struggles are not acknowledged to someone going through a struggle now, I think it would lead to feelings of isolation and inadequacy, rather than leading to strength through overcoming adversity. If someone offers me advice, I want to know why they think that is a good idea for me to try. Maybe they've seen this countless times. Maybe they've been there before themselves. Maybe they just know me and know what tends to help me. Maybe they don't know me from Adam and have never been there themselves before and never known anyone, but they've read a lot of theory. I'm not used to accepting "Because I say so" as an answer from anyone whose authority I'm not already assured of.
("Because I say so" works from Darkside, because I know who he is and he knows me past the point where words run dry. "Because I say so" works for anyone making claims about their own experience and feelings. "Because I say so" works from the deities Who have directly tapped me. "Because I say so" worked from my parents until the assorted points in the maturation process when I started making my decisions for myself. Everybody else has to go with "Because I think so," and then either defend their thesis or not.)
I have problems with authority that expects no questioning. I have problems with authority that assumes a greater knowledge and experience without testing or comparing. I have problems with authority that says "It's for your own good" without attempting to involve me in the process of determining what my own good is and should be. On the average, certain things can be assumed. But when you try to assume that because something is the average, it must apply to one single individual out of that group? That is a logical fallacy, first off, and is dreadfully presumptive and insensitive to boot.
The Figment's faith seems to attempt to apply to the broadest common denominator, but does not particularly inspire my confidence that more complex situations will be handled with love, grace, and sensitivity to the situation.
figment0 told me in all earnestness that it wasn't that LDS folks never made mistakes, it was that no one mentioned the mistakes that they'd made, and no one around them mentioned them either, in the idea that not talking about the mistakes would draw attention to the strengths of people, not their weaknesses. The Figment does not have a way with words. His words often come out klutzy and half-backward, and sometimes reinforcing the exact opposite of what he intended, though the words are coming out almost right for what he wanted to say. Everything he said to reassure me that LDS was good and healthy for him and for everyone made me more likely to want to take him by the hand and flee screaming, except that I knew that he would not appreciate that. So I fled silently into the night. Sometimes he sends me postcards from Stockholm.
I am sure that in a tight-knit community, everyone knows everyone else's business, whether they want to or not. There's just no way to avoid knowing about it, sometimes. And it's very important to give people privacy, at least illusory privacy. It's also healthier to look to the future rather than dwelling on the past. But the impression that Figment gave was different. This impression was that while a problem was going on, appropriate help would be rendered -- but once the problem was past, the problem would never be referred to again, not even in the context of "I know what you are going through now, because I battled with that myself in the past, and it was a difficult fight."
If that's not the case, then Figment was communicating it badly.
If it is the case, that past struggles are not acknowledged to someone going through a struggle now, I think it would lead to feelings of isolation and inadequacy, rather than leading to strength through overcoming adversity. If someone offers me advice, I want to know why they think that is a good idea for me to try. Maybe they've seen this countless times. Maybe they've been there before themselves. Maybe they just know me and know what tends to help me. Maybe they don't know me from Adam and have never been there themselves before and never known anyone, but they've read a lot of theory. I'm not used to accepting "Because I say so" as an answer from anyone whose authority I'm not already assured of.
("Because I say so" works from Darkside, because I know who he is and he knows me past the point where words run dry. "Because I say so" works for anyone making claims about their own experience and feelings. "Because I say so" works from the deities Who have directly tapped me. "Because I say so" worked from my parents until the assorted points in the maturation process when I started making my decisions for myself. Everybody else has to go with "Because I think so," and then either defend their thesis or not.)
I have problems with authority that expects no questioning. I have problems with authority that assumes a greater knowledge and experience without testing or comparing. I have problems with authority that says "It's for your own good" without attempting to involve me in the process of determining what my own good is and should be. On the average, certain things can be assumed. But when you try to assume that because something is the average, it must apply to one single individual out of that group? That is a logical fallacy, first off, and is dreadfully presumptive and insensitive to boot.
The Figment's faith seems to attempt to apply to the broadest common denominator, but does not particularly inspire my confidence that more complex situations will be handled with love, grace, and sensitivity to the situation.
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They won't. Organized religion will tend towards it's lowest common denominator - I believe in that just as much as I believe in $Deity.
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Sorry, but this line killed me dead. :>
I also love the comment about the way Figment tends to "explain things" how it seems to come out backasswards sometimes? So very true.
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That, and my LJ-fu is locked a lot.
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If you are never alone with a member of the opposite sex even to help someone fix a flat tire, then you will never have the opportunity to commit adultery. If no businesses in the area are open on Sunday, a potential temptation to violate the holiness of the Sabbath is removed. If you never socialize with (presumably non-members) who smoke and drink, then you won't be tempted to those sins.
The connection here is that if young people (in particular, as they're at the most risk of many of the sins Mormonism is most afraid of) find out that their chuch-member authority figures and role models have had problems with any of the Big Moral Failing sins (sex, drugs, and "counterculture" symbols like piercings & tattoos) AND SURVIVED ANYWAY, that very fact might serve as a sort of temptation itself. Thus certain things Don't Get Talked About in order to Help Keep The Weak On The Straight And Narrow Path.
If the "problem" is something perceived as morally-neutral, like a serious auto accident and subsequent lengthy recovery period, there's no particular stigma attached to talking about it.
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But from the perspective of the young people, and the adults they will someday be? Especially given that many of them will someday have to leave their little conformist subculture and interact with People Who Are Different?
*casts hairy eyeball on Tygerr's own psyche*
I was the lucky recipient of just a small *fraction* of a similar "Breaking The Rules Will Destroy Your Life" indoctrination, and look how *I* turned out when I discovered later that it wasn't so....
Doing it right
Much better than a flat ban.
I admit that when she mentioned it, I got the heebie-jeebies, because raising kids is an easy position to abuse, but she trusts that he is making sure the kids are fully informed, and informed before it comes time that they face these things.
(from a comment to othercat about stargate)
He is a very sweet little boy (note: he's 12.5 years older than I am, and he still comes off as an idealistic high school student) and automatically assumes: