South Dakota, and [But I'm A] Nice Guy[s] vs. [genuinely] nice guys

[azurelunatic]

Seen it all over: help get a Planned Parenthood on the rez in SD! http://community.livejournal.com/be_bold/212948.html (this isn't the original; the original's in someone's personal journal somewhere.)

divalion: No More Mr. Nice Guy
(with supplemental http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/ng.shtml re-pointed-out by elorie)


And my take...

When I catch myself thinking ["they're the marrying type, not the dating type"] about somebody, it's usually because they're looking for a serious, long-term, probably leading to marriage type relationship, and I'm probably not. So while "you got serious about me quicker than I got serious about you" is accurate, it's potentially incomplete.

Sometimes it feels like the "marrying kind" type of guy is looking for any warm body that fits the bill, rather than looking for a friend and partner who specifically fits his individual quirks. It's like there's this billboard above his head saying "Someone please love me! I will unconditionally love and respect you, no matter who you are or what's wrong with you, and I will bow to your every whim, if only you'll please love me and be with me!"

This is commonly summarized as "desperate" or "too needy", even though I'm sure it's intended to come across as open and accepting and willing to love and care. Some men objectify women by seeing them as bodies to be lusted after and fucked. Some men objectify women by seeing them as golden goddesses to be worshiped. I'm neither a full-time fucktoy nor a full-time goddess, and either extreme really annoys me. If a man does not distinguish between the charms of the Remarkable Sainted Mary Sue Maureen Johnson, Jill Average, and Whiny Shrill Dull Cousin Agnes, and thinks they'd all be equally suited for him to court because They're All Women, Aren't They? then I feel like my unique strengths are utterly lost on him, and I also think he's in for a really nasty surprise when he realizes that Maureen is eventually going to get wrinkled, Jill isn't Maureen, and Agnes is a deadly bore.

(If a guy should be able to point out specific examples of things that attract him to all three women, like Jill is pretty and a good listener, Agnes has nice tits and can really sing and have you seen her artwork, and Maureen is not only drop-dead gorgeous but can beat him at Counterstrike, then I'd be more inclined to think that he can appreciate me for who I am. There's also a very real fear that if someone starts out thinking that I am Superwoman and learns otherwise, that he'll go all weird and ditch me for the next instance of Superwoman he finds. If someone demonstrates that he sees my faults, would really like it if I improved on them, but loves me for my strengths regardless, I'm not afraid of that.)

There's something very frightening about someone who's ready to sign away his whole soul on demand to the first taker, if she'll only agree to keep him. I would not touch this type of man with a ten-foot pole without some serious training in ethical lifestyle BDSM slave-keeping, and I'm not interested in being a lifestyle Mistress. I want a partner, not a good doggie.

I have a horror of being with someone who's going to bend over backwards for me and let me walk all over him without telling me if I've accidentally trod on his balls. I know that I am capable of petty viciousness if someone annoys me and then doesn't push back once I snap at them. That's not the kind of person I want to be. I'll never ever date anyone who I don't think is capable of emotionally defending themselves from my temper. I want someone who has his own mind and life, and is capable of telling me when to piss off if I don't take a subtle hint. After being told to piss off once or twice, I get the subtle hints. (He'd better catch on to my subtle hints too, or I'll have nothing to do with him either.)

Comments

[nalidoll.livejournal.com]

http://www.ppmns.org/site/apps/nl/content2.asp?c=gwKTJaN0JyF&b=303759&ct=2088607

[azurelunatic]

I'm glad they're fighting, and it's good they've got a fallback plan should they fail to kick the appropriate arses.

[metaphorge.livejournal.com]

I wish more people would put more effort into being Genuine and Interesting. "Nice" is overrated. It's like saying that food is "flavorful".

[azurelunatic]

"Nice" is far too often "bland and timid of giving offense". Kindness is far better, especially with Genuine and Interesting.

[streetgypsy.livejournal.com]

Wow, good post (saw you commenting in sithjawas entry about postmodernism and randomly clicked your screen name) its refreshing to read a feminine perspective on this type of subject matter and oddly I can relate to almost all of whats been said in this entry and the others except in *reverse*. If you was to replace "guy" with "girl" i've had almost exactly the same happen on all accounts and share similar feelings.

Because of this i'd say its more a 'human' thing than a 'guy vs. girl' thing and that love (or sometimes lust) makes people weird in general.

With that said one thing I cant understand (and maybe you or anyone else reading can answer this?) is why alot of girls are so pro-anti-physical? I've sit and listened to 'em gripe about being 'objects' and how guys are evil for hours upon hours yet when I started working out and getting into shape myself? The very same girls who complain about being 'objects' are the very ones trying to hump me!! Com'on whats the deal with that?! Dont they realize the mixed signals that sends? I mean, with the way females constantly and often publicly denounce that type of attraction its something I cant grasp.

And I just dont understand the anti-physical thing as a whole because no-matter how you look at it creationism or evolution guys and girls were put on this earth to get it on with one another.

Um, but anyhoo hi. *waves sheepishly*

[azurelunatic]

I don't think it's strictly 100% against the idea of people being attracted to others based on the physical as much as it is that the physical is not the be-all and end-all of the things that attraction is based on.

Take a look at the context of these complaints about the physical basis of attraction.

I'm betting that 90% of the time it's based off of someone with a personality like a buzz saw (or a bowl of reconstituted mashed potatoes without any sort of seasoning) getting a really interesting guy just because of her body.

Or a guy wondering why he keeps dating shallow bitches who isn't seeing the connection between choosing his women solely on their looks and him winding up with the good-looking nasty ones.

Or someone being picked for their looks but being dumped as soon as the boyfriend realized that she had a brain and wasn't afraid to use it.

Or someone whining about the lack of available girls in the presence of girls who'd like to date him (but who don't fit his unspoken criteria for whatever reason).

Or the "Hi, my face is up here" syndrome.

There's a subtle difference between "I find you very attractive" and "You are very attractive and I wouldn't mind getting it on with you if you were willing." There's an unsubtle difference between either of those and "I think you're hot, and since you've [pushed my buttons/are receiving the ultimate honor of me being attracted to you/gone out of your way to advertise the fact that you're available], you should give me sex because you really owe it to me."

[streetgypsy.livejournal.com]

I was going more alone the lines of double-standards held and that a lot of the stuff girls complain about they do themselves. The "Hi, my face is up here." for example, i've totally had girls oogle me in that manner and only talk to me because of a physical attractions but *yet* they'd grip if a guy stared at their chest or did the same thing. ;)

Again, I used to be fat/ugly and im nothing great now but until I started working out I never got *any* type of attention from females. They might drop the "physical is not a be-all and end-all" but it *WAS* a end-all/be-all because they wouldnt give me the time of day when I was fat .... They're guilty of the same transgressions but unable to see it. Thats what I dont understand.

[azurelunatic]

People do and say conflicting things all the time. Have you been calling them on it? It'll probably gather sharp comments and frantic denials from the guiltiest.

[streetgypsy.livejournal.com]

People do and say conflicting things all the time.

Yeah, its called hypocrisy. ;p

[jennifer.livejournal.com]

http://www.ppmns.org/site/apps/s/content.asp?c=gwKTJaN0JyF&b=296668&ct=2088607

PP of South Dakota has said the clinic's not going to happen.

[azurelunatic]

Good on them for fighting.

[jennifer.livejournal.com]

Completely agreed.