Draft for suggestions: Reclaiming RSS Feeds

[azurelunatic]

Problem: RSS feeds get all trolled up and it's not fair.

Elucidation of problem: Seriously, you get a whole bunch of "first post" refugees from /. and then you get the nasty image trolls. Eww. Yet since it's not LJ public space, there are no restrictions on trolling/being gross, and no one can enforce them since there are no moderators. And this is bad, mkay?


Proposed Solution #1: Change TOS to prohibit trolling and other thuggish behaviors in unmoderated spaces.

+ It would give a violation to zap them for.
+ We really want to see them stop it.
+ It's a common-sense rule that should have already been made.
+ It's a change to the code of conduct rather than to the codebase.
+ Makes trolls unhappy

- Hard to enforce
- It's not really "public"
- The content of RSS feeds can be skankier than the trolls trolling it
- 6A's lawyers will have a shitfit


Proposed Solution #2: Use OpenID to authenticate moderators for RSS feeds

+ RSS feeds are content updated as a feed from another site. OpenID makes it possible to authenticate journal owners from another site. In theory, this could allow the owner of the source of the RSS feed to log in if allowed to.
+ Better than arbitrarily appointing moderators for RSS feeds.
+ Saves time & grief moderating for LJ Abuse staff
+ Makes 6A lawyers happy
+ Makes trolls unhappy

- Non-trivial to code
- RSS feed owners may not care to monitor or moderate comments to their feeds on another site
- Potentially difficult to figure out what sort of user rights the RSS feed account owners should hold

Comments

[ataniell93.livejournal.com]

Is it possible to disable comments on RSS feeds?

I realise the content of feeds can be skankier than the comments, but if you are signed up for a skanky feed, you probably know that. No one should ever click on something like kittenbreak and get 'treated' to a crush video in which kittens are stomped to death. If I had seen that I would probably have been hysterical for hours. I can't read the scene where Siff and his sister talk about how they were almost drowned without crying.

[azurelunatic]

In theory, it ought to be possible for a site admin to do something like that, but it might not be. It's something that probably should be looked into, especially for feeds that are getting a lot of abuse.

That troll is one of the ones who would be first up for a good smart piece of painful-in-the-bad-way tazer action if certain people could reach through the computer.

[ataniell93.livejournal.com]

Yeah, and starting with the balls so he never breeds.

[azurelunatic]

Yes.

[wibbble]

I think the main problem with both options is that suggestions is notorious for not achieving anything.

Possibly the best way to actually get change done would be to code it yourself and try and get someone to review and commit the code. (Something like ataniell93's suggestion shouldn't be that hard to code, if you could find someone who had knew perl.)

[bitter-crimson.livejournal.com]

I think the main problem with both options is that suggestions is notorious for not achieving anything.

Yeahhhhhhh... I made an utterly simple suggestion back in January, then was told in March that it had been migrated for implementation consideration, then was told some time after that it was going to be implemented. ...eventually. So I'm thinking, a year from now? Probably. If ever. (And sadly, I am not a coding whiz.)

[azurelunatic]

On IRC, everybody was getting all excited about the killfile. That thing is supposed to have been "going to be implemented" since forever. It looks like it finally might, because Mike (I think it was him/I think that's his name) was talking about actually how to do it.

[azurelunatic]

I hang out with the right people to find someone to review and commit, should I get around to coding anything.

Most of the developers are working on their own pet projects first, and once those are done, then they'll start in on the other stuff, honest...

[torrilin.livejournal.com]

Ok, there's really 2 problems here. A feed does not give the feed owner very good control over it, and a feed does not give LJ very good control over it.

So modify the feed setup to do (ideally) 2 things for feed owners. Option one lets them have a feed that lets LJ users get the data, and the feed owner can choose to permanantly turn off comments on the feed. That gives them a low maintenance feed option, and then *they* get to deal with the trolls commenting directly at *their* site. Option two is you get a feed that is designed a bit more like an LJ community. You must have a LJ ID set as moderator, the owner can control whether comments get autoposted and can block comments etc, and people who have "joined" the feed can't post new things. That still leaves option one feeds with the potential to end up with really nasty troll filled comments, but *comments* ought to be subject to the TOS since they're posted to and through LJ. Option two is something that is likely to be hard to code, since it involves lots of slightly different from existing code ideas, and since it's a lot of work for LJ should probably only be an option for a paid LJ account to open.

I'd suggest having option one be the default free feed, with comments *off* by default. You go through a setup period with new journals/feeds etc anyway, and if you look you can turn comments on. The default to off behavior (with an explanation) would be a UI way to encourage people who won't be watching the LJ feed to choose the lowest maintenance for everyone option. Since there's already a way to flag specific posts as no comments, extending that to a set of posts should be fairly easy.

LJ really *can't* do anything about skanky feeds (hrm, actually... if feed is treated as opening a LJ acct in the TOS then they could...). They *can* do something about comments. I doubt treating free feeds as LJ accounts is a good thing for LJ. It will mean more work for the Abuse and Support teams, and they're already doing tons of work. Maybe make it clearer to the end user signing up for a feed that RSS feeds on LJ are *not* subject to the TOS, comments are, and the content of the feed is not LJ approved?

[azurelunatic]

Oooo! I wonder if RSS could come out with a feed-standard that switches comments off from the feed-source! That would be spiffy!

LJ does do things about feeds that violate LJ TOS -- Fandom Wank over on JournalFen violates all kinds of LJ TOS (public mocking of people who have not given license to be mocked) and any feed of it that is created is shut down within seconds of someone finding it and reporting it.