Azure Jane Lunatic (Azz) 🌺 (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
azurelunatic) wrote2002-04-11 11:38 pm
azurelunatic) wrote2002-04-11 11:38 pm
Does Not Compute (I've got a perceptive roommate...)
Adam, thinking about it, has come to the conclusion that V's request to him to have him monogamously with her, while they are not officially dating, just with that option in the future, is unfair and a double standard, for V still has wild oats to sow as well as he does. Maintaining a non-committed monogamy with her would not just cut me out, but cut out all the other chicks he thinks of fondly and would in the future like to have fun with.
Adam cannot lie to V without first successfully deceiving himself. I think a few here can see the problems inherent in this. I Spoke to him strongly concerning the hazards of self-deception, and the way a tower of self-deceiving lies can collapse on a mind, leaving not much left to pick up and try to reformulate a working personality from the remaining shreds.
I also mentioned, though he was more than half on his way to sleep at that point, that I did not much care for the concept of a close by-choice relationship that required lies in order to remain a working relationship. It's a dearly held ideal of mine that any close-by-choice family, friend, lover relationship should have two options for truthfulness within it: the truth, or, "I do not feel comfortable discussing this/ cannot discuss this." The Vulcan "silent" response.
I remember that BJ would never let me have a thought or observation to myself; each time he saw that I was thinking something but wouldn't tell him what it was, he would try every attack at his disposal to try and get it out of me. Intimidation (pinning down and tickling, arousing and withholding sex) was not a tactic that endeared him to me. I eventually folded and told him, once, that I'd noticed a bulge in a guy's shorts (good gods, am I to confess to my fiance any time a man is attracted to me? I found it cute and endearing and not worth mention so as to respect the guy's privacy) and that this was what had gotten me so amused for those fifteen seconds after we'd left his company. I felt terrible with myself for quite some time afterwards, and began just telling him everything, whether I really wanted to or not, just so he wouldn't have the satisfaction of dragging it out of me.
The second time BJ tried strongarm tactics on me to get me to reveal something that had been told to me in confidence, I refused to fold. Votania had liked Darkside. That was it. That was all. And I wouldn't tell him. Finally, in desperation (some days later) I finally told him that this had been told to me in confidence in my capacity as religious counselor figure, and that he should at least respect the sanctity of confession.
It always irritated me that when I phrased something that I'd been trying to get through to him for days in the language that he was accustomed to hearing from church, that he would immediately spring upon the point and say, "Exactly! That's what I've been trying to share with you since forever!" when he was trying to violate the principle when it was put in my terminology.
...Double standards, in short, suck. Adam and I had sex this morning.
Also discussed with Adam the idea that if one is thinking of a girl as the sort that one hangs onto and eventually marries, that perhaps one should follow the advice of the song "Hold On Loosely (But Don't Let Go)" and remember that if one "clings too tightly, you're going to lose control." I suggested 25 as a minimum age for starting to get serious. Adam's got some serious playing around and selfdiscovery to go before he's ready to settle down. So does V. She wants to have her cake and eat her triple fudge banana split too.
I suggested to Adam, or at least I hope I successfully conveyed the point, that perhaps it would be wiser, rather than to chow that all down at once, and risk making oneself sick, to instead munch away happily on all the different flavors of ice cream in the sundae, not to mention the cherries, nuts, and bananas, and just keep the cake recipe in a pocket or a recipe box, and keep the cake's ingredients in the kitchen cabinets, so any time you get tired of the sundae, you can get out the recipe and make the cake. Having the cake made beforehand and not eating it sounds like a perfect scenario for the cake to go stale.
Adam cannot lie to V without first successfully deceiving himself. I think a few here can see the problems inherent in this. I Spoke to him strongly concerning the hazards of self-deception, and the way a tower of self-deceiving lies can collapse on a mind, leaving not much left to pick up and try to reformulate a working personality from the remaining shreds.
I also mentioned, though he was more than half on his way to sleep at that point, that I did not much care for the concept of a close by-choice relationship that required lies in order to remain a working relationship. It's a dearly held ideal of mine that any close-by-choice family, friend, lover relationship should have two options for truthfulness within it: the truth, or, "I do not feel comfortable discussing this/ cannot discuss this." The Vulcan "silent" response.
I remember that BJ would never let me have a thought or observation to myself; each time he saw that I was thinking something but wouldn't tell him what it was, he would try every attack at his disposal to try and get it out of me. Intimidation (pinning down and tickling, arousing and withholding sex) was not a tactic that endeared him to me. I eventually folded and told him, once, that I'd noticed a bulge in a guy's shorts (good gods, am I to confess to my fiance any time a man is attracted to me? I found it cute and endearing and not worth mention so as to respect the guy's privacy) and that this was what had gotten me so amused for those fifteen seconds after we'd left his company. I felt terrible with myself for quite some time afterwards, and began just telling him everything, whether I really wanted to or not, just so he wouldn't have the satisfaction of dragging it out of me.
The second time BJ tried strongarm tactics on me to get me to reveal something that had been told to me in confidence, I refused to fold. Votania had liked Darkside. That was it. That was all. And I wouldn't tell him. Finally, in desperation (some days later) I finally told him that this had been told to me in confidence in my capacity as religious counselor figure, and that he should at least respect the sanctity of confession.
It always irritated me that when I phrased something that I'd been trying to get through to him for days in the language that he was accustomed to hearing from church, that he would immediately spring upon the point and say, "Exactly! That's what I've been trying to share with you since forever!" when he was trying to violate the principle when it was put in my terminology.
...Double standards, in short, suck. Adam and I had sex this morning.
Also discussed with Adam the idea that if one is thinking of a girl as the sort that one hangs onto and eventually marries, that perhaps one should follow the advice of the song "Hold On Loosely (But Don't Let Go)" and remember that if one "clings too tightly, you're going to lose control." I suggested 25 as a minimum age for starting to get serious. Adam's got some serious playing around and selfdiscovery to go before he's ready to settle down. So does V. She wants to have her cake and eat her triple fudge banana split too.
I suggested to Adam, or at least I hope I successfully conveyed the point, that perhaps it would be wiser, rather than to chow that all down at once, and risk making oneself sick, to instead munch away happily on all the different flavors of ice cream in the sundae, not to mention the cherries, nuts, and bananas, and just keep the cake recipe in a pocket or a recipe box, and keep the cake's ingredients in the kitchen cabinets, so any time you get tired of the sundae, you can get out the recipe and make the cake. Having the cake made beforehand and not eating it sounds like a perfect scenario for the cake to go stale.
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I haven't even gotten a chance to NOT be serious....
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He's just been released from the nunnery...
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Oh, hell yeah. Ask my ex how different I am now from the person he was married to for 11 years. Or, well, 9 of those years. The last two were while I was changing. A lot of people are under the impression that I just went back to the person I was in high school (my parents think they "got their daughter back" **gag**) but especially having conversations with Miles recently has really pointed out that NO, I'm not that person either. I didn't change from KJ* back into KN*. I changed into Iroshi Windwalker, who bears about as much resemblance to KN* as *Mark* does. I even look definably different. People have looked at my driver's license as Mrs. J* and my driver's license now and seen the difference. Chris doesn't like to look at pictures of me from when I was married to Mark because they don't look like me. It makes him uncomfortable.
I talk about it rather blithely these days, to be sure, because it was four years ago. It's rather like a woman talking about the pain and travail of labor, long after it's over. They can make it seem far easier than it was. But ask
I refer to it as "my 9 years of insanity" and gloss over the change. I left Christianity and became a pagan, I simply say. Only because most people don't really want to know, and I don't want to dwell on, how very stricken I had to be to do that. Most Christians take their religion so lightly, they think of me being a Christian and think of people who go to church on Sundays and otherwise are perfectly normal neighbours. If I say I was *very* fundamentalist, they think of, maybe, Southern Baptists. They really don't understand that the core of my way of looking at things, the filter through which I interpreted every datapoint that came into my life, was that damned book. I have met deity, you see. I have felt that deity to the core of my being, and I am awed. I know only that it is awesome, fearsome, and wonderful. So if that deity had written that book, then that book was therefore EXTREMELY FUCKING IMPORTANT. And a lot of people don't get that, that my life, my heart, my existence had to be torn to shreds before I could turn away from that book. It wasn't just a matter of not going to church and casting circles in the woods after that.
Self-deception can turn your life upside down, when it falls apart, and it will. You don't even begin to know, unless you've been there yourself.
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It's especially important for someone who's got the beginnings of the mind of a Practitioner.
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It's the waiter thing. How he treats other women relates to how he treats you.
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This "no technical sex" thing had actually been a trial run: V had informed him that she was going to want to do this, and she'd pretty much dared him that he couldn't go for any length of time without having sex with me. A dare is a dare and he took it. (Insert alarm bell for topics previously discussed with
But he and I have hashed out the concept that I would like to be prewarned of anything that's going to have impact on our relationship, and apparently this need for communication differs from most girls he's dated (I bet!) and he's still adjusting to it... but he's doing well at it.
(....that is to say, he stood me up on a planned date for chatting with some other girl .... I believe the term is guerilla empathy... I'm never going to do that again, but now he knows *exactly* how it feels to me when he pulls stuff like that. Then we discussed rules for our relationship.)
I'll have to outline what the rules are, somewhere, and probably will wind up posting them. Should be interesting, once I figure them out myself.
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Her: Bet you can't keep it in your pants!
Him: Can too!
Him to you: I don't want to, though.
What I'm missing is the him-to-her: I'm actually not doing that.
That's what's making me twitch. But it's a landmine of mine, and maybe not other people's.
My take on it:
Him: Can too!
Him: Sweetie... um... she's going to want me all to herself, in the future.
Me: < sobbing fit > OK, whatever you think is best. It upsets me, though.
Him: Oh, that doesn't mean right now... just... she's dared me I can't keep my dick out of you.
Me (rolling eyes): Whatever you think is best.
Him: That doesn't mean we can't mess around a little, though...just no sex.
Me: *rolls eyes*
Her: Oh, by the way, I went to a bar last night and guys bought me drinks.
Him: OK, I do want to have sex with you. She's being manipulative.
...He hasn't had the chance to talk with her yet; I understand from what he tells me that the topic will come up when they do talk.
And no, I'm not particularly comfortable with him bringing home Mandates From Heaven from her.
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Her: Bet you can't keep it in your pants!
Him: Can too!
Him to me: I'm gonna try keeping it in my pants.
Her to him: I went to a bar last night and guys bought me drinks and hit on me. Hee-hee!
Him to her: Ummm...
Him to me: This is not cool. I'm not going to keep it in my pants after all.
Next up on WWF: Him to her: You were right, I didn't keep it in my pants either.
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He's aware he's been playing one off the other. I've just stopped playing.
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He has found that telling her the absolute truth does not lead to happiness in their relationship when it's something she doesn't want to hear. Or at least that's what I gathered from him. He may have a different take on it. (source: he evades the topic by saying that the other bed is too filled with clothes and junk when she asks him do he and I still sleep together.)
He has found that in fact, he likes having sex with me, and that her pending request is not fair to him. He's lost the little "challenge" she made to him (I don't consider that fair tactics on her part) and has in doing so discovered something important.
He and I doubt we'd work out as a longterm couple. He gets angry exactly like my father, and I cannot tolerate that in a potential mate. I grew up with that; my children won't. There are other issues as well.
I think I've already had the heartache of breaking up with him. I tend to suffer things before they happen.
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As long as we get to snuggle, sex is of lesser importance. It's the snuggling that's necessary, and that's going to keep on happening; that's something he can't do without either, not unless he's furious with me. I don't see that happening again for a long time.
More than convincing him to stay to me, my aim is to convince him to be true to himself, first -- only when he's true to himself can he then be true to any lover.