Yes, I did! (just go through nearly a year of mailing list to distill these. Now with more context

[azurelunatic]

[19:09] zvi: rahaeli: are you going to have any open to casual driters through support, or is it all going to be cult^h^h^h^h trained support members?
[19:10] zvi: s/driters/drifters
[19:10] rahaeli: yeah, pretty sure we'll do anyone-can-answer
[19:10] rahaeli: well
[19:10] rahaeli: anyone can submi a possible answer
[19:10] rahaeli: that will have to be reviewed/approved by someone experienced ,etc
[19:10] * zvi nods
[19:10] rahaeli: and there'll be a support guide with the support answering guidelines and blah blah
[19:11] rahaeli: if i close my eyes and wish really hard, maybe somone will deliver a fullyfunctional support system staffed by knowledgeable, experienced, professional, and eager people
[19:11] ivorygates: adgeek: it will require Research thank god for wikipedia. and rah: i resemble that remark.
[19:11] Azz: I got my first support point already! I used Mark's public answer as a support style guide, despite being used to LJ's support style. :D
[19:11] rahaeli: IG: if you do not use the words "ich bin ein jellydonut", i will be very sad.
[19:12] ivorygates: *cackle*
[19:12] ysobel: I got a spr0t point too! I um. used LJ support style >_>
[19:12] ivorygates: du mir bis du dunkin donuts
[19:12] rahaeli: yeah. our support style guide will kinda be "okay. you know D's emails? you know that tone? that's what you want."
[19:12] *** You are now known as Azz|movienight.
[19:12] rahaeli: only that means i have to put it into *words*
[19:12] UrsaMajor: rah: you mean we get to overwhelm people with WALL O' TEXT? ;)
[19:12] Azz|movienight: ...let me see if I can get back to you on that by tomorrow sometime.
[19:12] zvi: oh, asking you to put something in words is a terrible imposition ...
[19:12] ivorygates: (hey, the longer entry length? i can totally DVD "captains" in ONE ENTRY!)
[19:12] rahaeli: oh fuck you ursie ;)
[19:13] rahaeli: ig: ooooo
[19:13] * ysobel giggles
[19:13] UrsaMajor: :D
[19:13] * Azz|movienight is sometimes Very Good at Summing Up Shit
[19:13] rahaeli: but yeah, i know that there's a whole lot of Stuff brewing around in the back of my head about support
[19:13] rahaeli: i just hope it coughs up a synthesis by open beta :P
[19:13] Azz|movienight: 1) do not sound like a robot.
[19:14] Azz|movienight: 2) by that, I mean if you talk in corporate-speak, I will shiv you with a plastic knife
[19:14] ysobel: *snerk*
[19:14] rahaeli: "breezy and light, but professional-sounding"
[19:14] zvi: But 3) don't threaten the users w/ violence
[19:14] rahaeli: ....well damn
[19:14] rahaeli: there goes all my plans
[19:14] Azz|movienight: 3) casual tone is OK, but do not insult the user
[19:14] rahaeli: dammit zvi you never let me have any funnnnnn
[19:14] * rahaeli whine
[19:14] ysobel: she didn't say don't *be* violent, just don't *threaten*
[19:15] zvi: ysobel has hit upon an important distinction :)
[19:15] * MissKat is going to head to bed. Muscle relaxants are <3
[19:15] rahaeli: oh well that's all right then
[19:15] * ysobel out of idle curiosity does a word count on current entry
[19:15] Azz|movienight: 4) if the user calls a thing by some non-standard name, try to work with the user's terms, and try to define to them what it's likely to be called in the FAQs they'll be reading.
[19:15] *** MissKat is now known as MissKat|bedddddd.
[19:15] rahaeli: but doing so in a way that doesn't make the user think you're correcting them EVEN WHEN YOU TOTALLY ARE
[19:16] Azz|movienight: 5) wall-of-text sometimes has to happen, but if you must do that, then break it apart somewhere else
[19:16] Azz|movienight: 6) sometimes you just have to use those $640 words. Be kind. Include a dictionary.
[19:17] Azz|movienight: 7) Assume they have a brain until proven otherwise.
[19:17] ysobel: ...over 1600 words so far and i am just getting to the main issue. man, i totally should not have recruited jdn to write this for me
[19:17] * rahaeli snickers
[19:17] rahaeli: i believe i tried to warn you
[19:17] rahaeli: or maybe i just thought about warning you
[19:17] zvi: 7 seems like a recipe for frustration
[19:17] Azz|movienight: 8) Assume that they don't know the things that you know until proven otherwise.
[19:17] rahaeli: zvi: yeah, but lj support is the converse most of the time and it makes people :(
[19:17] ysobel: you totally went "HERE HAVE FUN"
[19:17] rahaeli: and occasionally D:
[19:18] Azz|movienight: 9) People, in the aggregate, suck beyond all imagining. Do not be surprised when they do.
[19:18] rahaeli: isa: damn. well, know that i am sympathetic to your plight
[19:18] Azz|movienight: 10) Individuals rock beyond all imagining. Be delighted when they do.
[19:19] Azz|movienight: 11) They will try to do things with the system that the system was never intended to do. However, intended by whom? Sometimes the will of the userbase reigns. Sometimes the will of the people steering this tugboat does. Hang on tight.
[19:19] niq: re: 7
[19:19] niq: you can, actually, assume people don't have a brain and yet not condescend to them
[19:19] niq: assume merely that they have temporarily mislaid their brain to sleep deprivation or what have you -- it's not inherent, it's not a character flaw.
[19:20] hilarytamar: Hey, quick poll: an LJ friend's computer has died & she'll be offline for about 10 days. She has in the past said she likes getting letters. Dropping her a letter every few days = spiffy or = stalkery?
[19:20] zvi: spiffy
[19:20] rahaeli: spiffy
[19:20] rahaeli: esp. since i know who you're talking about
[19:20] rahaeli: and she could use the <3
[19:20] amaliedageek: real dead tree mail is spiffy
[19:21] hilarytamar: *nodnod* Cool. Thanks.
[19:21] Azz|movienight: 12) when possible, look for the underlying principle behind something that on its face seems unreasonable. Sometimes it is in fact unreasonable; sometimes it means that someone has identified a problem, doesn't know how to articulate it, and is giving the best solution they know how to think up.
[19:21] hilarytamar: And I might even have a couple spiffy cards -- the kind you pick up because they're spiffy but you have no reason to mail out when you get them, so you hoard them. That's not just me, right?
[19:21] Azz|movienight: ht: not just you
[19:21] Azz|movienight: ... and I am 10 minutes late for movie night now. :D
[19:21] * Azz|movienight zips
[19:21] amaliedageek: nope, I do it too
[19:22] amaliedageek: azz: go, already!
[19:22] hilarytamar: Azz|movienight: are these principles of support or of life? Seems to work either way.
[19:22] Azz|movienight: a bit of both. some I learned from D; some I learned from LJ Suggestions. <3
[19:22] ivorygates: HT: spiffwallah
[19:23] rahaeli: "assume good faith. also assume the person at the other end of the screen is a malevolent fuckwit. behave as though the former is true, while making plans for the latter to be true."
[19:23] Azz|movienight: heeeeeeee
[19:23] JD: haha

• Contractions aren't the devil.
• Listen to anecdotes about how things are and are not working, but you ignore the hard statistics about these things at your dire peril.
• Don't be afraid to anthropomorphize the parts of the system and their interrelation if that will get the point across.
• Sometimes the balance between technical accuracy and understandability is delicate. Call for help at this point.
• If you don't know something off the top of your head, throw down what you do know; someone else may have the missing piece that you don't.
• Common-sense check your shit.

[04:24] Azz: so on 4 emails, I have:
[04:24] Azz: Contractions aren't the devil.
[04:24] Azz: Listen to anecdotes about how things are and are not working, but you ignore the hard statistics about these things at your dire peril.
[04:24] Azz: Don't be afraid to anthropomorphize the parts of the system and their interrelation if that will get the point across.
[04:25] Azz: If you don't know something off the top of your head, throw down what you do know; someone else may have the missing piece that you don't.
[04:25] Azz: Common-sense check your shit.
[04:25] Azz: If there's a simple explanation for something that could have happened wrong, confirm explicitly that it didn't before going on to the fancy stuff.
[04:25] V_PauAmma_V: (to Azz) Emails about?
[04:26] Azz: D's emails to dw-discuss
[04:26] *** skrshawk has joined #dw.
[04:26] Azz: from which I am distilling many points of wisdom
[04:28] * skrshawk starts waking up
[04:30] V_PauAmma_V: "TheSchwartz summons its inner preschooler and calls your client page a meanie poopyhead. Your client page throws a tantrum, bawling its <i>s out."
[04:31] Azz: *snerk*
[04:31] pir: crashing. night, all
[04:31] *** pir is now known as pir|zzzzz.
[04:33] * V_PauAmma_V wanders off in search of something edible.
[04:35] Azz: This is the internet. It runs on internet time.
You are a human, not a robot. So is the person at the other end of the conversation.
[04:35] Azz: Yes, people will ask the same questions over and over again. This is why FAQ stands for Frequently Asked Questions.
[04:35] skrshawk: azz, i just showed up, backstory? :)
[04:37] Azz: Last night, D said (more or less) that her support philosophy could be distilled from her emails to dw-discuss.
[04:37] Azz: So here I am, going through Gmail's archives searching on [DW Discuss], Denise
[04:38] Azz: and looking for the underlying principles to distill from all these things, so that future generations of DW Support will have it all spelled out.
[04:41] *** Cesy has joined #dw.
[04:42] skrshawk: FAQs are great, because they inspire people who otherwise might ask a lot of questions (such as i did in getting to know D), but do nothing for the chronically ignorant.
[04:43] skrshawk: but the former people actually care :)
[04:46] rahaeli: azz, bless her, is taking a first stab at a support manual of style *g*
[04:47] skrshawk: blessings to her :) *intones something in latin that may or may not have been a blessing*

• Even if something is common-sense to you, it doesn't always mean that it is to someone else. If there's a simple explanation for something that could have happened wrong, confirm explicitly that it didn't before going on to the fancy stuff.
• It's OK to share stuff that's not a finished product under many circumstances. People appreciate hearing how things are going even if it's not done.
• It's fine if you're going to use technical terms. Make sure to define them in plain language first.
• Give the basic answer first, then give the tl;dr version.
• Don't give false hope.
• Don't let idealism blind you to cold hard reality.
• Don't let cold hard reality discourage you from imagining how things would be in an ideal world.

[05:21] Azz: ... how the fuck do I get about 10k of text out of 7 emails?
[05:21] Azz: HOW THE FUCK?!
[05:21] julietk: it's a gift!
[05:22] rahaeli: \o/
[05:23] V_PauAmma_V: (to Azz) Only 10K? rahaeli would get 70MB, at least. :-)
[05:23] rahaeli: azz: you can read my mind. and you know it's full of wall-o-txt.
[05:23] *** skrshawk has signed off IRC (Ping timeout).
[05:23] rahaeli: when 6A bought LJ, i wrote a ten thousand word email to mena and andrew anker about how volunteerism worked on lj. i don't have it anymore, obviously, but it was received with a lot of "o.O"
[05:23] *** chasy|mobile has joined #dw.
[05:23] Azz: heee
[05:24] chasy|mobile: hi azz!
[05:24] Azz: hi
[05:24] * Azz recalls her own 10k-word-document
[05:24] chasy|mobile: are you an early bird or in a different timezone?
[05:24] Azz: Tupshin was *really* *surprised*
[05:24] Azz: my sleep schedule is fucked, but not as fucked as D's.
[05:24] chasy|mobile: LOL
[05:24] chasy|mobile: that explains it.
[05:24] Azz: I crashed for 3 hours, and I seem to be up for the day

• Be generous with acknowledgment to the people who are helping.
• This is the internet. It runs on internet time.
• You are a human, not a robot. So is the person at the other end of the conversation.
• Yes, people will ask the same questions over and over again. This is why FAQ stands for Frequently Asked Questions.
• If you make it too hard to do, people will not do it. Yes, people will avoid doing things that they think are too hard even when it is actually really easy.
• We want to find ways to make things easy and painless for people, even if we personally happen to think that they're plenty easy and painless to start with.
• We want to deliver not just good service, but really great service.
• If there's a problem, we want to be aware of it, even if it's not something we can do anything about.
• If you see a situation that could use help, offer to help. (Don't force it on someone, as your idea of "help" may actually come across as nothing of the kind to them.)
• Give examples.
• Light wittiness, if you can swing it, is encouraged. (If you can't, don't stress over it.)
• Show emotion, but don't let them see you pissed off or wounded if you can help it.
• Emphasizing words, exclaiming, and asking questions are all OK, but in moderation.
• Since some people can't tell the difference between a joke and a serious statement, don't make jokes that would be damaging if taken seriously, and telegraph it when you make some particularly outrageous joke. (Note: Support in general probably should not be outrageous except with friends.)
• Someone, somewhere, will want to know all the numbers and all the technical details. Give it to them.
• Specify what units of measurement you are using when you are giving numbers.
• Your minion with graphs is always in order.
• If things are not how you would like them to be, it is OK to say that up front.
• If someone has a point, concede it. Your ego is not the point here.
• Do your level best to avoid creating a privilege gap. This leads to people being and feeling disempowered, and all sorts of bad stuff.
• Don't get grabby for the sake of having power/money/elephants. Do something useful with what you have.
• Don't take away people's ability to vote with their pocketbook. Don't try to make it difficult/disadvantageous to leave; make it advantageous to stay. And not in the "because we won't X" sense.
• Go into any situation knowing about how much room for negotiation you have. Avoid being backed into a situation where you have made a firm statement and your ass is showing.
• If you do take a firm stand, it had damn well better be one that holds up under the Terms of Service.
• Lower the wall. (Unpack for those who don't worship Miles Vorkosigan.)
• If you know where the buttons are, avoid pushing them.
• If you cannot deal with someone you dislike in a sufficiently gracious style as to avoid letting them know by any means, from overtly telling them to barely-conscious word choice, then you should let someone else deal with them.
• If someone does not like something that is necessary, acknowledge the validity of their not liking it and let them know in as courteous a manner as possible why it is necessary. They do not have to like it, but they deserve to know why the decision was made.
• If there is a reason something unpopular was done and it is not a reason that the public gets to know, explain as much as you can and advise that the rest is not for public consumption. (Check with someone before explaining, in case you've stepped over that line.)
• Don't violate the trust of the userbase. It's hard to earn back.
• Respond to both the question the person is literally asking, and the one that they don't know that they need to ask. Answer the question they've actually asked first.
• Acknowledge your limitations and work to transcend them. Use tools.
• We'd rather hear about an issue for the 50th time than not hear about it at all. (Remember this the 50th time we hear about it, and treat the person asking the question as the latest in a succession of Great Minds Thinking Alike, and show them where the other Great Minds have collected the Known Issues.)
• Explain why.
• Elegance/prettiness matters. Working also matters.
• Your petty annoyance may be someone else's serious accessibility issue or expression of deep-seated disempowerment. Check yourself before you bare your ass.
• If you'd like to see something done, say so. No one is going to read your mind. If you put it out there, someone may take it up, even if you've been meaning to do it and just haven't gotten around to it yet.
• If someone else puts something out there and you have a spare minute, why not try your hand at doing it?
• Avoid creating a shambling horror of the deep. Explaining what you are doing and why you are doing it helps avoid that, because, all indications to the contrary, we cannot actually read your mind, and neither can you two years later unless you leave enough notes. This applies to code, to documentation, and to decisions you came to after two weeks of debate that no one logged anywhere.
• Chili sauce does not belong in anyone's eye.
• Avoid Mart Bug Death. By which I mean, if there's a quick way to get something done, and a slow one but the slow way is going to be so elegant it makes strong men weep, try the quick way so at least it will get done, and then strong men won't punt you across the room.
• Provide outlets for frustrations.
• Always look for a better way, or at least be open to the idea that there might be a better way. Yes, even if you made the current way and you think it's practically perfect.
• Be aware of scope creep and feature creep, and define what needs to be done at a minimum and stick to it.
• Yes, offer it in another color.
• Insist on a documentation trail as a matter of policy. If there's something that someone wants to try undocumented, tell them up front why documentation is a good idea, and don't let them pressure you into something that can land you in hot water. A vague disclaimer is no one's friend.
• Be as generous as you can afford to be.
• Be as precise as you can.
• Keep on topic. Digressions happen, but you can make them happen over *there*.
• (Don't kill the spirit of people by shooting them for a little digression.)
• Keep the signal to noise ratio firmly in mind.
• Professionalism. Learn it. Love it.
• The person in charge of a project should be someone who is enthusiastic enough about it to put time and effort into it.
• Pay your volunteers in acknowledgement and love. This does not make you a teacher; this makes you a manager. (Fuck you, Joe.)

[05:47] Azz: oh dear, maybe I should not have "Fuck you, Joe." in a support style document.
[05:47] Afuna: and boiling water on noodles :)
[05:47] Azz: Oh well, it is a draft.
[05:47] Azz: send Joe to hEll
[05:47] * Afuna snickers at azz
[05:47] * hEll sneaks out a scaly hand and grabs Joe!
[05:48] * hEll 's depths emit a sudden roar as it expels the translation system (again, just to KEEP IT THERE). (stayed in Hell for 9 days)
[05:48] skrshawk: azz, you're being an azz ;)
[05:48] Azz: good trade, hEll.

• Not everybody learns best in the way that you teach best. This doesn't mean there's anything wrong with either of you. Some people want words. Some people don't get it until they've done it themselves. Other people need plenty of pictures.
• Don't badmouth people in public.
• Separate content and format wherever you can.
• There's something to be said for using a modern tool that was not coded in a dorm room in 1997. There's also something to be said for not jumping between tools every three months.
• Connect with people, in person when possible.
• Don't feel you have to strip yourself of your cultural, subcultural, or personal attributes. Volunteer culture is very curious and people will probably ask a lot of questions. Feel free to answer or turn away questions as you feel comfortable doing.
• People who make and do stuff are nifty. The creative process is fascinating in all its forms.
• Sometimes something technically nifty must be nixed for business reasons.
• Try to not break shit that people are using.
• There is significant value in using conventions that people have spontaneously generated.
• People are going to care how things look, even if you personally don't. It's not an inherently silly thing to care about.
• People can and will learn things. Education is a good thing.
• You never want to have to deal with someone who used to love something and has learned to hate it. Don't contribute to making passionate people hate you and the site.
• You may be someone's first and only experience with Support. Make that experience a positive one.
• Even though you are not necessarily an Official Representative, your words may be taken as such. Take care.
• People learn better when they have to learn to do something they want to do, rather than studying something for no discernable benefit.
• Why waste time? If someone has already written something down better somewhere, you can point people to it for the definitive word, as already laid out. It's easier for you, because you don't have to re-invent the wheel. It's sometimes easier for them, too, since it should be in an easy to find, easy to bookmark place, and has been honed into a thing of awesomeness already.

[06:30] Azz: oh god. it is march 9th.
[06:30] Azz: the update of 100 bugs.
[06:30] Azz: that one.
[06:30] rahaeli: yes! we're doing it again
[06:30] Azz: wall. of. text.
[06:30] rahaeli: i figure once a month is enough ;)
[06:31] Azz: no, I am on the original one in my wanderbackthrough.
[06:31] rahaeli: ah!
[06:31] * Azz puts on space helmet
[06:31] * V_PauAmma_V waves at Oscar.
[06:32] Azz: (?)
[06:32] V_PauAmma_V: (and now I'm thinking of rahaeli as Mother Thing. help?)
[06:32] rahaeli: heeeeeee
[06:32] V_PauAmma_V: (to Azz) Have Space Suit, Will Travel.
[06:32] Azz: o rite
[06:32] *** zwaan has joined #dw.
[06:32] rahaeli: hi zwaan!
[06:32] * Azz walks through a wall instead
[06:33] zwaan: hello :)
[06:33] julietk: hee!
[06:33] zwaan: thought i'd pop in and do some lurking while i wait for the open beta this month
[06:33] rahaeli: good plan! although i will caution you, hanging out in here you may find that you've suddenly and inexplicably volunteered to do an incredible amount of tedious work.
[06:33] * rahaeli points at azz
[06:34] rahaeli: as she can attest!
[06:34] zwaan: well, i guess it beats job hunting :p
[06:34] skrshawk: some of us believe in DW without further influence. we impress the rest into labor ;)
[06:34] rahaeli: it's my personal reality distortion field.
[06:34] rahaeli: i'm sorry. it's not on purpose.
[06:34] skrshawk: impressment has kept navies around the world going for centuries :)
[06:34] julietk: oh dear, I haven't done ANY bugwork this wkend.
[06:35] * Azz is on email 20 of 170, having volunteered to translate Rah-speak into general support principles.
[06:35] rahaeli: CHOP CHOP, MISSY
[06:35] * skrshawk cracks the whip
[06:35] rahaeli: how're you gonna earn invite codes? ;)
[06:35] Azz: fueled by cheap soda and strawberries

• If you're going to have an obsess-over-details conversation, have it in a "pull" environment instead of a "push" environment: where someone who does not want to be bombarded with every last "me too" or "no way" can skip it. An email list is "push", and so is the main IRC channel. The comments section of a post is generally "pull", and so is a wiki page. (A side IRC channel where everyone who is there is someone who wants to be there is a special case. So is the comments of a post belonging to someone who doesn't want or need to hear all the details, since they may not have turned off their comment notifs.)
• If it's something sensitive, try in private if at all possible.
• If you are using stats to make smart decisions, make sure that those stats do not contain stupid data.
• If you leave a hole, someone is probably going to try to use it for nefarious purposes. It's better to close it than to have to slap them down.
• Figure out what makes your awesome people awesome. See if you can clone them, or if what makes them awesome is teachable.

[07:07] Azz: Oh dear, some of these are turning into design principles.
[07:08] rahaeli: azz: note them down
[07:08] rahaeli: just distill everything you've got
[07:08] rahaeli: i will slice & dice
[07:08] Azz: heh.
[07:08] Azz: figured as much
[07:08] rahaeli: you will notice things about my writing that i myself do not notice, etc
[07:08] Azz: it'll just be a Much Smaller wall of text
[07:08] rahaeli: also, i have just given out a code to my friend in AIM, and we're discussing things (she's telling me all her impressions, which are insanely positive)
[07:08] Azz: and you'll notice in reading my wall that I've left out something horribly vital
[07:08] Azz: which is as it should be

• Style matters.
• Readable format matters.
• Indexing matters.
• Some sort of logical format matters.
• Enforcing strictness when dealing with user data is one of many, many ways you can help avoid introducing security holes.
• Any limits on what people may or may not do, whether it's instituted for business, practicality, or code reasons, should be documented *somewhere*, even if it's not publicly. The fact that there is a limit should be acknowledged publicly, even if the parameters are not.
• Turns out that when you build a project that explicitly teaches/mentors/nurtures new contributors, makes it easy for people to commit no matter what their energy/ability level, and consciously tries to root out exclusivist language/attitudes, you get a really diverse contributor base! who'd'a thunk it.
• Not everybody uses the site the way you do; not everybody who uses the site differently uses it the same way. People who use the site differently are not inherently wrong for doing so. (That being said, sometimes the way they're trying to use the site is just not how the site works at all.)
• More options are not always better.
• If someone tries to turn something into Mart Bug Death, someone may get pissed off and do it quick and workable.
• Even the things that are going to be set-once, like the name of the site, still shouldn't be hard-coded, because this is SPARTAAA. Er, open-source. We're not the only ones who will use this code.
• If it can be fixed technically, rather than administratively or socially, oh god, please do it that way.
• No, the minutes from your meeting don't actually need to be in the code base.
• You are standing on the shoulders of giants.
• Identify shit that has always bugged you. Maybe it will get fixed.
• Poke shit until it breaks, then report what you did to break it.
• It really is dangerous when you teach the Suit how to code.

[07:13] *** gerg has joined #dw.
[07:13] Azz: morning gerg!
[07:14] gerg: o//
[07:14] Azz: how's the other half of one of my many hiveminds?
[07:14] gerg: buzzing away!
[07:15] Azz: yay!
[07:16] phoenix: fizzbuzz
[07:17] *** DarthIne has joined #dw.
[07:18] Azz: Miss Lunatic is starting to acquire a headache. We'll see if there's going to be more wading, or if it's time to bugger off for some dragons and Age of Sail.
[07:18] Azz: bug 402
[07:18] Bugsy: Bug http://bugs.dwscoalition.org/show_bug.cgi?id=402 enhancement, P3, -undecided-, afunamatata@gmail.com, RESOLVED WONTFIX, Properly style first officer
[07:18] rahaeli: i love bug 402
[07:19] * Afuna eyes bug 402 warily
[07:19] Afuna: hey, bugsy seems to be smart, and not repeat the bug link
[07:19] rahaeli: yes!
[07:20] Azz: ...and iTunes serves up USS Make Shit Up
[07:20] Afuna: heee
[07:20] Afuna: that is awesome timing, azz
[07:21] * Azz bounces a graviton particle beam off the main deflector dish
[07:22] *** Hermitty has joined #dw.
[07:23] Azz: Some of these are taken verbatim.
[07:27] *** Che has joined #dw.
[07:31] *** Che has signed off IRC (Ping timeout).
[07:32] Azz: there, if anyone would like to see what I have in my Notepad file so far: http://azurelunatic.dreamwidth.org/6263978.html (unordered list courtesy the RTE)
[07:34] *** av8rmike has joined #dw.
[07:36] *** Che has joined #dw.
[07:38] Elizabeth: Azz, do I want to who Joe is?
[07:38] Elizabeth: *to know
[07:39] rahaeli: azz: this is *awesome*
[07:40] Azz: An ex-manager who Did Things Very Wrong, and thought that managing a group of volunteers was like being a nursery-school teacher, not like being a manager.
[07:40] Azz: and mocked said manager for stating that she paid the volunteers in love.
[07:40] Elizabeth: whut.
[07:40] rahaeli: joe did not last long
[07:40] Elizabeth: also, is it just me, or does that entry spill over the bottom margin in negatives?
[07:41] rahaeli: (LJ burns through stupid managers very, very fast.)
[07:41] rahaeli: (it amuses me; in a three-year period, i think we went through .... seven general managers?)
[07:41] Azz: what size?
[07:41] Elizabeth: n/m, when I refreshed it fixed itself.
[07:42] Elizabeth: rah, what did you do with the bodies?
[07:42] UrsaMajor: contractions may not be the devil, but i sure love using *cannot* for *can't* for emphasis *G*
[07:42] rahaeli: "chili sauce does not belong in anybody's eye" hee hee HEE
[07:43] UrsaMajor: you *cannot* *pause* do that.
[07:43] rahaeli: and elizabeth: it was after i left. long after i left. however, if i ever see the gentleman in question, i will totally run the fuck over his foot.
[07:43] Elizabeth: It really is dangerous when you teach the Suit how to code! (also poets *cough*)
[07:44] Elizabeth: not just joe, rah -- seven general mangers? how did you persuade people to keep coming on? you must have hidden the previous bodies somewhere.
[07:44] * V_PauAmma_V . o O ( "Bluebeard's 8th wife"? )
[07:47] Azz: I am aware of the contradiction inherent in "(Fuck you, Joe.)" and "Don't bad-mouth people in public", for the record. :D

• Don't be evil.
• Be sensitive about what you do with other people's private data, even if you're sure you can handle it carefully. Be oversensitive rather than undersensitive, because even though you may look like a paranoid fool, you won't be the one getting written up on El Reg for yet another privacy breech that could have been prevented through someone not being an idiot.
• Don't shoehorn two systems that do different things into one bucket.
• Don't involve too many people in a project that is essentially small, but don't try to make it look like Some Exclusive Fun Thing That Only The Annointed Get To Do either. The few people in the small project will do a good enough job on that if they're having enough fun.
• Don't make people try to use something that is broken. Save that for your testers.
• If you're going to explain stuff to people, use it regularly yourself; at least use it before explaining it, to make sure that everything's up to date.
• If multiple people independently come up with the same problem with something, it deserves attention.
• Yes, people will block legit notifications as spam instead of unsubscribing from them. This is an inherent part of sending out notifications.
• Make sure that the places where people can find stuff out are prominently advertised.
• If something is a problem and comes up when you are trying to address something else that fits into a different pigeonhole, make sure that the other problem gets addressed too. Don't brush it off just because it doesn't fit at the moment.
• Reward your helpers.
• Even if there's no official process for it, make sure that there's something.
• Take pride in your excellent accomplishments, for they are excellent.
• we'd rather be pessimistic up front about what we can offer at first and be able to expand later than be too-optimistic about what we can support and have to take things away.
• The user-head links to the profile.
• Consistency in one's hilarious terminology as well as serious terminology is a good thing: see "shambling horror" &c.
• It's OK to ask for a cookie if you think you rocked and you weren't noticed.
• Not everybody lives where you do. This means cultural differences, seasonal differences, and time differences.
• Tell people when something is going to change, so they don't spend too much time on something that will become obsolete. Include the timeframe, so if they really think something to make it livable for the next six months is worth it, they can do it, but not waste the time if it's going to change tomorrow.
• Changing one's writing style hurts like all fuckery.
• It's a fine balance between informative and looking like an obsessive shill.
• It's OK to change plans partway through. Just make sure that everyone gets the memo.
• Frozen potstickers may be baked, microwaved on a plate just like that, fried in oil, fried with a bit of oil, boiled (stovetop or microwave) in water or broth, or just thawed (if already fully cooked). They may be the perfect food. After strawberries.
• Getting rid of something that everyone hates will make you loved.
• if there's
• ever a choice between "allow you to use the site in a way that makes it accessible to you" and "allow someone else to force their vision of the site on you" then we will choose to do the former for logged in users. If you are logged out, we will go with the content owner's preferences. So, to make sure you can always use the site: log in, then go do whatever you're trying to do.
• see logged-in usability: all usability things should be available for OpenID people, always. Or via cookies?!
• Some important conversations should either be had or duplicated in a place where there is recordkeeping/logging/indexing, because of that documentation thing.
• If you attempt to fix a bleeding fucking hole in the social health of the service with a technical feature that half-assedly addresses the symptoms, and fail to look for the underlying cause, AND the feature pisses off people extensively, someone will shiv you with a plastic knife and then rip the feature out by the roots. (See: nudge.) protip: if people are not doing X, figure out why, don't try to force them to do X. THIS IS NOT HARD.
• Let's talk about Snap. *stab*
• If you are the kind of person who makes consistently poor decisions and is then an ass about it, your name will wind up reviled in the wrong circles.
• If you see people Doing It Wrong, figure out what is wrong, why they are doing it, and converse and figure out how to do it right. If you don't feel like talking to them and/or can't do any of that analysis, talk to somebody who can be helpful. (Not cattily behind their backs to someone who can't help.)
• If something is technically possible now, but would conflict with something planned for the future, don't allow it now. Easier to not-give than to take away.
• Distinguishing between "should" and "must" is a good thing.
• If the question is being asked now, answer it now, even if you have to answer with "I can't give a definitive answer on this until X". Then make sure that X happens, and that once X happens, an answer happens.
• Identify technical things that encourage an unhealthy social environment, such as the multiple-maintainer power grab possibility, and find a fucking technical solution to it.
• Zilch kills all productivity for a period of time not less than n+6d6.
• No, it really is possible to change your mind about stuff and still be consistent. Acknowledge that you learned things that made you change your mind, and go forward and move on.
• You are going to need an internet lawyer somewhere around. Ultimately there's always going to be some ambiguity, because, like so much internet legislation, the law was written by people who don't understand the internet and how it works.
• Decisions that were made way back in the day especially because of technical/security considerations should be reviewed periodically in case shit has changed.
• Every time you re-invent the wheel, please justify why.
• Please do take several iterations of feedback and refinement to design really important stuff. Anything that touches on security should be considered important.
• Design it flexibly, let people purpose it however they want.
• Trim your fucking mailing list messages.
• Challenge assumptions and ask for clarification. (While blunt geek-speak may work for this, it may not come across well, just a note.)
• The only way to fix it is to wipe the disk array.
• Be intimately familiar with the myriad ways that users can annoy each other.
• It is vital to have a sociologist, even an amateur one, on staff.
• Point out the possible problems with what you have said or what you are proposing so that no one else will have to. It will make them agree with you rather than point fingers, even if they are just agreeing that yeah, that's problematic, and will free them up to point out things you've not thought of.
• Define your priorities, if you're working from a set of priorities. Define your criteria. Someone will want to know.
• Being a sleazebucket is bad for the long-term sustainability of the service, so don't.

[09:47] amaliedageek: (fear me, people, for I have had enough sleep)
[09:48] Bugsy: mark@dreamwidth.org changed the Status on bug 597 from ASSIGNED to RESOLVED FIXED.
[09:48] Bugsy: Bug http://bugs.dwscoalition.org/show_bug.cgi?id=597 enhancement, P3, B - Open Beta, mark@dreamwidth.org, RESOLVED FIXED, per-subdomain ljuniq cookies being set
[09:48] Afuna: (I fear. and cower. hi!)
[09:48] xb95: KICK HIS ASS TEALC
[09:49] jc: Haha
[09:49] jc: I miss Stargate
[09:49] amaliedageek: hi fu!
[09:50] amaliedageek: i'm thinking of naming my DW journal "Girly albino minimalist" ;-)
[09:50] amaliedageek: all right, not really, but it cracked me up
[09:50] amaliedageek: mark's watching sg-1?
[09:51] xb95: yeah, midway through season 5
[09:58] *** skud has joined #dw.
[09:58] amaliedageek: hi skud
[09:59] skud: morning.
[09:59] *** Highlander has signed off IRC (Ping timeout).
[10:01] Azz: coincidentally, Mark, I just hit the bit in my DW email history where you were saying you should watch it sometime to know what we were always on about.
[10:03] xb95: hehehe
[10:03] xb95: it's truth!

• Don't forget we have to use what we're building.
• Don't repaint the bikeshed.
• Don't let process kill innovation.
• on Dreamwidth, Mommy and Daddy believe in friendly bickering in front of the children
• It's possible to disagree on many if not all of the small details while still being completely united on the big ones
• Do not stop people from giving us money, even if we have to restrict what they get in return for the money to make it not cost us more than it's worth. Let them make the choice.
• Money paid unto DW is redeemable for services, not cash.
• I'm generally against over-theming in general, but particularly when it winds up sounding so twee you have no idea what the site's talking about.
• Start somewhere, wait six months, and see what the userbase has come up with. You *know* that no matter what we brainstorm we won't think of everything, and the "best" name will eventually prevail over time as the community figures out what they want to call it.
• Social Media's product is the platform itself, and the players on its stage are its sponsors/patrons. They will resent being treated as the product.
• Social media members create their own gift economies.
• Any attempt to monetize a social media community that conflicts with the community's own gift economy will be actively rejected by the community.
• If an attempt at monetization is rejected by the community it exploits, it will fail.
• Once a social media community has lost trust in its platform, the magic is gone.
• If you're interested in helping out with a project, you can do part of it; you don't have to commit to a whole huge chunk, and you can put something down if it's too big.
• You may think you have a good idea of how things work. You don't actually until you see the numbers that prove it. (They may prove something else. What you know may only represent a certain fraction of the userbase.)
• Continue to make it clear what the current priorities are.
• Have a good way to know who is speaking with authority and who is talking out their ass.

[10:22] V_PauAmma_V: (to Azz) Actually, a friend of mine made the point that users are patrons or sponsors, not customers.
[10:25] Azz: ah. yeah, that fits better.
[10:26] Elizabeth: man, I can't wait to work on the dissertation about internet gift cultures.
[10:28] Azz: If you had to pick a mascot or theme representing #dw, what would you pick?
[10:29] rho: a termite mound
[10:31] Elizabeth: Pie. "Love is not a pie!"
[10:31] Sophie: http://qdb.zhzh.org/dw/81
[10:31] Azz: Pie doesn't have tentacles, either.
[10:33] Azz: Oh! This is really important and I hope it hasn't been overlooked.
[10:33] aveleh: Hey, Sophie, do we have a qdb community on DW yet?
[10:33] Sophie: Not yet. Want one?
[10:33] aveleh: Of course :)
[10:33] Sophie: Okies :)
[10:34] Azz: Staff journals. There are two ways to do things if someone leaves staff. 1) pull their access to that journal, which has its pros and cons.
[10:34] aveleh: Thanks. (You have most of the code done already, right?)
[10:34] *** Che has signed off IRC (Ping timeout).
[10:35] Azz: 2) change the journal type on them to personal, letting them keep the journal but no longer be Staff, which could have the unintended effect of pulling Staff status from stuff they have said/commented in the past.
[10:35] Sophie: aveleh: Yeah. I'll need to update the code to allow for posting to a Dreamwidth community as well as an LJ one, and there'd need to be an account the code can use to post from, so I might just use my own for now. (or ask someone for an invite code, whichever is better)
[10:35] Sophie: Azz: Maybe have another status for 'expired staff'?
[10:36] Rogue: 'retired staff'
[10:36] Sophie: With an appropriate head icon. Then you could do 1) and replace the status.
[10:36] Sophie: Yeah, 'retired' is better.
[10:36] Sophie: I didn't know the best way to put it.
[10:36] Rogue: :)
[10:36] aveleh: Azz: I think Rah said earlier (although she may have changed her mind) that she'd rather pull old staff status, and she won't care if old stuff no longer looks official.

• Take multiple use cases into account or someone will get slapped. Having a sense of self-identity is really important -- the whole "know your market and stick to it" thing -- but it's just as dangerous to ignore the "long tail" of people who only vaguely fit that model.
• The translation interface as inherited from LJ really bites hard.

I swear, it's like writing legalese turns you into an asshat, even if you're intending not to be.

I'm also probably going to sound like an anti-free-speech cynical corporate thug here, which isn't my intention, but there's really no way around it. Let me try to explain...

Basically, the Terms of Service is a listing off of everything that people *shouldn't*, ideally, do. The site philosophy and the ToS enforcement policy is a listing off of how we're going to deal with it when people do the things that they shouldn't do, because people always do the things they shouldn't do, and what level of "things people shouldn't do" we're going to take action to remove.

The ToS is more restrictive than what we're going to choose to enforce (as mentioned in the abuse policy document), for the simple fact that people will *always* come up with creative ways to be asshats on the internet. The problem is that John Gabriel's Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19/ for those of you who don't know it) is, and will always be, in full play. It's in a site's best interest to be at the same time both vague and restrictive in a Terms of Service, because that means that when situations arise with someone thinking up new and inventive ways to abuse the service, the site has some leeway in terms of what actions they can take.

We want to be as permissive as possible; we really *do* believe in free expression. But there are some things that we also need to prohibit -- things like posting a dossier of people's personal information to permit identity theft, for instance, or posting credit card numbers, or posting unchecked and rampant spam. If we failed to remove stuff like that, we'd quickly degenerate into a cesspool of abuse, which would drive people away.

Balancing free expression with anti-abuse measures is tough. Really, really, *really* tough.

Comments

[azurelunatic]

from Aveleh: it's important to be excited in public.

[norabombay]

You know that I want to try my hand at some basic support, right?

[azurelunatic]

Oh, boy!

My guess is that as long as you know that the head of the username link goes to the profile, and the name goes to the journal, you're doing just fine.

[norabombay]

This is very very true.

Now: I don't know how much of any given day I'll have to help, but I"m really good at it when I can :)

[azurelunatic]

Although DW support will not be snagging wholesale from LJ support, in LJ support, activity is looked at weekly and quarterly.

[zarhooie]

Don't reinvent the weasel.

Honor before victory. Underwear before pants.

[azurelunatic]

You also made my best friend giggle.

[zarhooie]

*bows* I live to serve, m'dear.

[sophie]

I've just come across this comment and although it's an old post, I feel the need to point out that all the best superheroes disregard the 'Underwear before pants' rule.

[ivorygates]

1. This is distilled awesome.

2. While I was reading it, I came across a phrase that I read as "don't re-invent the weasel". On second look, it didn't say that after all, alas....

[azurelunatic]

You made my best friend giggle. This is very important.

weasels (yes i did)

[ivorygates]

\o/

[elizabeth]

Pants are for the weak. And the warm.

If there is a way to fuck it up, someone will find that way, and refuse to believe they are Doing It Rong.

Try refreshing and clearing your cache.

[azurelunatic]

The 10,000 word note inspired by Tupshin is this one: http://azurelunatic.livejournal.com/6177092.html

[azurelunatic]

[10:37] AzureLunatic: one of the tasks for any website that needs tech support is how exactly tech support should behave to the tech supportees.
[10:37] RaRanax: lube or no lube?
[10:37] AzureLunatic: "that's easy," D said. "those emails I sent? Like those."
[10:37] AzureLunatic: there needs to always be plenty of lube for fisting.
[10:38] RaRanax: "bracy your self scotty! I'm going in dry."
[10:38] AzureLunatic: so yrs trly wound up going through a year's worth of emails and distilling the finer principles of support embodied in them.
[10:39] RaRanax: as in support should be concise, clear, to the point and actully helpful?
[10:39] AzureLunatic: yes.

[carrie]

"Chili sauce does not belong in anyone's eye."

^^

[azurelunatic]

This is a valid principle of support! From the mailing list! Poor Mark. D: