azurelunatic | "...you should therefore throw your lot in with the greater part."

"The will to be stupid is a very powerful force -- but there are always alternatives. Surely it's more important to be loyal to a person than a principle."

Galeni raised his eyebrows. "I suppose that shouldn't surprise me, coming from a Barrayaran. From a society that traditionally organizes itself by internal oaths of fealty instead of an external framework of abstract law -- is that your father's politics showing?"

Miles cleared his throat. "My mother's theology, actually. From two completely different starting points they arrive at this odd intersection in their views. Her theory is that principles come and go, but human souls are immortal, and you should therefore throw your lot in with the greater part."

--Lois McMaster Bujold, Brothers In Arms.

I've held by this standard for some time now. If I love a person, I love them, no matter what they do, unless they become a person that I cannot love. There are very few people who have managed to accomplish this. If you want to become unloved, establish a habitual pattern of disrespect, stupidity, cruelty. If you want to be loved, establish a pattern of kindness, thoughtfulness (the thinking part, if not the thinking of others), caring, respect. Everybody has their off days.

shadesong has a system similar to mine, where the whole of her experience with a person is taken into account when weighing friendships.

The first time I read this, it struck a resonance with me. It's difficult for me to give up on a friendship. I only think I've done it three times, and I'm getting slowly back in touch with the first one.

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*nod* I've ended more friendships in the last 6 months than I had in the six years before that.... because it took things so long to build, because people grew accustomed to the knowledge that I hated ended friendships and, in some cases, abused that...

And my door is always open, if the people I've ended friendships with want to start over.

stronae and I didn't speak for two years after he Ended It with me, but he's now one of my best friends again... I never closed that door. :)

It took me all of high school and his engagement and subsequent exceptionally disrespectful treatment of me to unfriend Shawn; I saw him through to his wedding, at which point he became Somebody Else's Problem. He and I are speaking again.

It took all of high school, several years out of, an engagement, and two moves to destroy my friendship with BJ. He's burnt.

If you want to become unloved, establish a habitual pattern of disrespect, stupidity, cruelty. If you want to be loved, establish a pattern of kindness, thoughtfulness (the thinking part, if not the thinking of others), caring, respect. Everybody has their off days.

Exactly.

I've seen far too many people that let the Bad outweigh the Good in this sort of situation... as my grizzled old family doctor used to say:

"You can save someone's life a thousand times, but if you let them die once they never forgive you...."

Saying, "Oh, shit, I'm sorry; I'll avoid that in the future" afterwards does help incredibly...

I've often wondered how much of that is a reaction to events in Barrayar, when she advises him that "without some guiding line of principle, how are you going to get through the next 18 years."

I'd never looked at it that way before, but I'm glad you pointed it out.

Now I shall wonder too.

Sounds like a good question to ask the List, once I get myself back from vacation-induced nomail.

Hi, I wandered here through Spacemummy, and I'm enjoying the way you write.

I also find it very hard to unfriend people. I tend to give infinite second chances because I don't want to give up on someone once I've seen potential for a great friendship in them, or once I've seen that potential realized. Like you said, once I love someone, I love them, unless they become someone I can't love.

I'm just beginning to learn how to walk away--not for good, just for now--when things get to the point where I need to. It's hard work to remember to put my own needs ahead of others'; it's not in my nature. But I think sometimes being willing to walk away is the wake-up call the other person needs, to understand that they're hurting me. Hopefully the separation and the time to think and grow will save the friendship and make it stronger.

(And hopefully these pre-caffeine ramblings make some sense!)

Hi; welcome to my insanity. There's plenty enough to go around.

I've found that the dealbreaker for someone being unfriended is if they hurt someone else I care about. I used to take a lot more abuse from supposed friends than I do now.

These days, I sometimes get in a bit of trouble with my friends. If they're having problems with someone, and I see it, I'm likely to tell the creator of the problems exactly what they can do with themselves.

Occasionally, this has included people's parents.

I find it hard to give up on friends too, I will give people chance after chance after chance until I finally give up on them. I'm never sure which hurts more tho, having to lose them, or putting up with all the trouble reaching that point and not giving in...?

Having been both places, I think it's the getting to the point where you need to let go, and then not letting go, that's the worst. Not only are you still getting hurt, but you know that what you're doing is bad for you, and bad for them, too...

What's harder than knowing where to stop with friends is knowing where to stop with parents, and how to go about it. I have days where I want to just punch my dad for destroying our family, but other times I decide that I have too much love for him to cast him off.

Eeeek.

I hear you.

My parents are excellent, but Votania's are... well, her dad's wonderful, and her mother is great in emergencies. It takes an emergency to get her family functioning like a real family.

Needless to say, I've bitched out her mother a few times. It helps if you can get someone who's not afraid to for the bitching-out part....

"...you should therefore throw your lot in with the greater part."

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Letting go of parents

Re: Letting go of parents