In which I decoy a #yuletide for great justice & Harriet vs. Max (Harriet's dragon name is Iona)

[azurelunatic]

18:10 2013-12-25

[17:29] * @Hippo-Hsifeng First, worldbuilding in a fandom where people can shapeshift into dragons
[17:29] * @Procrastiscorchnix heeds
[17:29] <@laura47> and here is her website, wehreyou can get on the mailing list and stuff if you want to hear about the album when it comes out
[17:29] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> Second, Cabin in the Woods spelling and grammar
[17:29] * @Hippo-Hsifeng Second, Cabin in the Woods spelling and grammar
[17:29] <@Procrastiscorchnix> sleep well lwyden
[17:29] <@Procrastiscorchnix> oops. late
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[17:29] <@Steelneko> "shojou animes" ...
[17:30] <@Tuesday> (I ripped part of my nail off into the bed one night, then managed to rip it halfway across, still in the nail bed, last night, Procrast. So much unpleasantness and bleeding.)
[17:30] * @Hippo-Hsifeng In the dragons one, what about when someone's dragon shape isn't the same sex and gender as his or her human shape?
[17:30] * @Hippo-Hsifeng In the Cabin one, it's got fewer than 2000 words and diverges from canon
[17:31] <@Procrastiscorchnix> owww, Tuesday.
[17:31] <@Chimerari> OUCH tuesday
[17:31] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> ouch ouch ouch
[17:31] <@laura47> oops i forgot my last link:
[17:31] <@laura47> http://www.marybichner.com
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[17:31] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> cool
[17:31] <@Procrastiscorchnix> i hope it grows fast fast.
[17:31] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> me too
[17:31] * @Tuesday has her fingers crossed
[17:32] <@Chimerari> sending nail growth magic in your direction tuesday
[17:32] <@Tuesday> At least it waited until I was finished with one of the EPHs.
[17:32] <@rsf> Maybe you can get one of the stupid finger splints at the drugstore.
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[17:32] <@laura47> oh i guess we're going to land soon
[17:32] <@laura47> and bye bye internet
[17:32] <@Chimerari> hippo-hsifeng I'm intrigued by that dragon shape-shifting question. what is it the author wants to ping down about the gender discrepancy?
[17:32] <@Procrastiscorchnix> welcome home, laura47?
[17:32] <@laura47> HELLO FLORIDA
[17:33] <@rsf> I hate the darn thing, but my nail is protected.
[17:33] <@Tuesday> Bye, laura! Drive safe!
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[17:33] * @Hippo-Hsifeng good question
[17:33] <@Chimerari> bye laura47
[17:33] <@Tuesday> Oh, hey, you're in the same state I am,now!
[17:33] <@laura47> home is Boston. Florida is inlaws, and heated swimming pool. :)
[17:33] <@Procrastiscorchnix> i love the future, man.
[17:33] <@sleepfighter> byeee laura
[17:33] <@Procrastiscorchnix> "gotta go, plane's landing"
[17:33] <@laura47> lovely chatting with you all, as always. :-D
[17:33] <@Tuesday> <3
[17:33] * @Hippo-Hsifeng What issues might come up for the character?
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[17:33] <@Procrastiscorchnix> The obvious one is what if an old friend of the dragon's is now genderflipped, too?
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[17:34] <@Procrastiscorchnix> Options: "wait, why am I attracted to X when I wasn't before" and obvs "wait, why am I not when i was"
[17:34] <@Chimerari> Hmmm depends on the character of the dragon in this world really. are they more beast? i.e. they don't have complicated thought processes
[17:34] <@Procrastiscorchnix> other than that, chafing?
[17:34] <@Chimerari> or are they more humanized
[17:34] <@Chimerari> which might leads to emotional complications
[17:34] <@Procrastiscorchnix> i mean, dragons probably have cloacas
[17:34] <@Procrastiscorchnix> so it's not as if they suddenly have wide stances.
[17:34] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> also, XX chromosomes are female and XY are male in most mammals, but ZZ (or XX) are male and ZW (or XY) are female for most reptiles and birds
[17:34] <@Procrastiscorchnix> that is really cool, Hsifeng.
[17:35] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> exceptions: for some reptiles, the gender ratio of a clutch of eggs also depends on the temperature of the nest
[17:35] * @Hippo-Hsifeng From the anon!writer, assume the world is aware of transgender issues; one of the dragons is a cis-woman dragon and a trans-woman human; one of the dragons is a cis-woman dragon and a cis-man human
[17:35] <@Procrastiscorchnix> If I were worldbuilding, I'd also make the amount of stress on the environment control the ratio of males to females; some species do this
[17:36] * @Hippo-Hsifeng "I think the dragons are going to have more simple emotional lives but the humans are going to have some very valid questions"
[17:36] <@Procrastiscorchnix> I bet the annoying thing would be everybody asking questions about "what's it like"?
[17:36] <@Procrastiscorchnix> what valid questions?
[17:36] <@Chimerari> so basically the human side is fully aware of whatever happens while they're a dragon?
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[17:37] <@Naraht> You know, I'd be far more bothered by being a dragon than being a male dragon
[17:37] <@Naraht> I'm not certain the maleness would even rate on the scale
[17:37] <@Procrastiscorchnix> is it possible that the trans-woman human is envious of her dragon self for having the correct set of organs for her gender?
[17:37] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> I'd be more bothered by laying eggs than by having a period
[17:37] <@Chimerari> I'm assuming it's completely the norm to be dragon transforming
[17:37] <@Lunalein> I DECLARE VICTORY OVER THIS CHRISTMAS DINNER
[17:37] <@Procrastiscorchnix> +1 naraht
[17:37] <@kitkat> !! I just got a sudden late madness treat! I'm so excited, I had no treats before
[17:37] <@Naraht> Like, I get the difficulty of being in a body that feels wrong and all
[17:37] <@Procrastiscorchnix> I know nothing of dragon sexual customs
[17:37] * @Azz awards pun points to Naraht for the "scale" bit
[17:37] <@Naraht> but, DRAGON
[17:37] <@Procrastiscorchnix> unless you count Flight Rising
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[17:37] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> for the platypus IRL, xxxxxxxxxx chromosomes are female and xyxyxyxyxy are male
[17:37] <@havisham> Would the dragon be more interested in GOLD?
[17:38] <@Procrastiscorchnix> son, ah say son, ya got too many chromosomes there.
[17:38] <@Lunalein> i just made a steak in a cast iron skillet for the first time and did NOT burn the house down
[17:38] <@searchingweasel> eee, recipient commented!
[17:38] <@Chimerari> or fire and destruction havisham
[17:38] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> yay!
[17:38] <@Procrastiscorchnix> \o/ lunalein
[17:38] <@Procrastiscorchnix> or possibly True Names
[17:38] <@havisham> Ideally, all of those things.
[17:38] <@voksen> grats on steak and comments
[17:38] <@brainwane> nicely done, Lunalein
[17:38] *** Jae is now known as Jae-afk
[17:38] <@kitkat> oh that treat was adorable
[17:38] <@havisham> Also, unlimited sheep.
[17:38] <@Procrastiscorchnix> I think a key issue for me would be that, in human form, who's taking care of my eggs, and vice versa
[17:38] <@EllieMurasaki> speaking of dragons and fire, how come it is a rare thing for fantasy authors to notice that dragons might just cook their meat before eating?
[17:39] <@Procrastiscorchnix> it's commonplace in cartoons
[17:39] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> for some species of mole vole and Ryukyu spiny rat, neither gender has Y chromosomes; males are XX or X0 (the 0 stands for no chromosome there)
[17:39] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> Ellie, wouldn't the be even more obviously predigesting than cookign is for people?
[17:39] <@Procrastiscorchnix> I mean, it's easy to lay an egg as a dragon and then you're a human and wham! you don't have the skills to defend your eggs against predators
[17:39] <@Procrastiscorchnix> or indeed your dragon self was just having a fling and your human self doesn't care about the results
[17:40] <@Procrastiscorchnix> and all the other dragons snub you
[17:40] <@Procrastiscorchnix> for being an egg-abandoner
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[17:40] <@Procrastiscorchnix> if I were a weredragon, I would want to be asexual in dragon form.
[17:40] <@Naraht> yeahhh
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[17:40] <@Chimerari> EllieMurasaki maybe they don't like the smell of barbecue on their scales?
[17:40] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> and ifg you were a wyfdragon?
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[17:40] * @borusa is suddenly and inexplicably gripped by the desire to re-read "Tea With The Black Dragon". Now, where is it?
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[17:40] <@Procrastiscorchnix> everybody loves the smell of barbecue.
[17:40] <@Rosencrantz> pleh, I smell of lapsang souchong
[17:40] <@Procrastiscorchnix> if I were a wyfdragon I would flame anybody who came *near* my cloaca.
[17:40] <@Chimerari> i just want to be a dragon, full stop, who cares about anything else
[17:41] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> because were- is actually a male prefix, and was attached to all sorts of suffixes including -man
[17:41] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> back when -man itself was gender-neutral
[17:41] <@Naraht> mmmm lapsang souchong
[17:41] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> wyfman is the root of the modern word woman, and wyfwolf is the feminine form of werewolf ;)
[17:41] <@Rosencrantz> it smells like sweaty sailors
[17:42] <@Rosencrantz> it's my father's favourite tea, so I was handling it to give him some
[17:42] <@Lunalein> wyfwolf, i love it
[17:42] <@Chimerari> ohhh you learn something new everyday
[17:42] <@Procrastiscorchnix> have you been smoking your sailors again?
[17:42] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> http://birdandmoon.com/whenigrowup.html
[17:42] <@Chimerari> I like lapsang souchong, it is quite smoky
[17:42] <@Rosencrantz> oh, that's neat
[17:43] <@Chimerari> I'm dreaming of being a dragon~~
[17:43] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> Rosencrantz, neat tea? :)
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[17:43] <@Rosencrantz> christmas is so weird. Interacting with family, finding out your aunt's a creationist, etc
[17:43] <@Rosencrantz> not my kinda tea, Hsifeng. I prefer dragonwell
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[17:43] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> ah
[17:43] <@whetherwoman> everything is awesome, i got an awesome comment from the recip i hadn't heard from yet, yay.
[17:43] <@Lan-sleep> yaaay
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[17:44] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> drabble not by me: http://archiveofourown.org/works/1101150
[17:44] <@sleepfighter> stuffing waffle + pork gravy = i regret nooothiinnngggg
[17:44] <@Chimerari> okay I think I'm off to bed now, thanks for the company chat
[17:44] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> stuffing on a waffle, or stuffing molded into waffle shape?
[17:44] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> goodnight!
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[17:45] <@Procrastiscorchnix> sleep well, chimerari
[17:45] <@Rosencrantz> two of my recipients are still AWOL
[17:45] <@Rosencrantz> one of which has kudosed and replied to all her other fics
[17:45] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> may they come home safe
[17:45] <@whetherwoman> yowch, that's hard, Rosencrantz
[17:45] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> well, that's one who's safe
[17:45] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> I hope the other one's OK
[17:45] <@Rosencrantz> she's probably having christmas dinner or something
[17:45] <@Procrastiscorchnix> I'm really sorry, Rosencrantz.
[17:45] <@Rosencrantz> the other one, I mean
[17:45] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> the one who *could* have responded and just *didn't*, what's up with her?
[17:46] <@Procrastiscorchnix> I hope one of your recips wises up and gives wonderful feedback
[17:46] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> here's what I got: http://archiveofourown.org/works/1090269
[17:46] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> it is awesome
[17:47] <@havisham> Sometimes it takes me a while to leave feedback (and reply to it, tbh) because I am OVERWHELMED (caps needed) by the story itself.
[17:47] <@whetherwoman> everyone's read the Susie Derkins & Death play Calvinball, right?
[17:47] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> nope
[17:47] <@rsf> no... where?
[17:47] <@havisham> If anyone's missing comments from their recipients, this probably why.
[17:47] <@whetherwoman> go read that one. :)
[17:47] <@whetherwoman> http://archiveofourown.org/collections/yuletide2013/works/1096326
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[17:48] <@woggy> SO AWESOME
[17:48] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> Here's how to respond at first: http://archiveofourown.org/works/592303?show_comments=true#comments
[17:48] <@whetherwoman> just when i think all the calvin & hobbes stories have been told, someone comes up with something awesome lik that :)
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[17:48] *** Azz sets mode +o Rosencrantz
[17:48] <@Rosencrantz> whoa
[17:48] <@whetherwoman> There are also some great Wendy/Captain Hook stories
[17:49] * @borusa likes hsifeng's gift.
[17:50] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> )
[17:50] <@sleepfighter> hsifeng - stuffing molded into waffle shape by wafflemaker
[17:50] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> * :)
[17:50] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> mmm
[17:51] <@silver> we still have hippos?
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[17:52] <@Lunalein> right now i'm just so happy that my house isn't on fire and apart from a small spot on my left hand i haven't burned myself either
[17:52] <@silver> always good news :P
[17:52] <@silver> sorry you still got burnt though
[17:52] <@Lunalein> given what i was working with, that's okay!
[17:52] <@Lunalein> and the steak turned out just right
[17:52] <@silver> what happened?
[17:52] <@Rosencrantz> *bandaids your hand*
[17:52] <@silver> oh, that's a mercy :P
[17:52] <@whetherwoman> yikes, Lunalein
[17:53] <@Lunalein> pfft it's a tiny little burn
[17:53] <@Lunalein> no big
[17:53] <@Lunalein> i've done worse
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[17:53] <@Lunalein> i once burned my FACE taking a pan out of the oven
[17:53] <@Morbane> You can't just say "given what I was working with" and then not explain :P
[17:53] <@Lunalein> (i made a steak in a cast iron skillet)
[17:53] <@Azz> owww :(
[17:53] <@Lunalein> oh, cooking dinner
[17:53] <@silver> oh noo
[17:53] <@Lunalein> very hot skillet, very hot oven, multiple pots on the go at once
[17:53] <@Lunalein> and victory is mine!
[17:53] * @shalott waves! o glorious evening with nothing to do but read and write treats!
[17:53] <@Lunalein> steak good. mashed potatoes and greens good.
[17:53] <@Azz> oh god, Lunalein, I just read that in doge
[17:53] <@Makioka> :D
[17:53] <@Rosencrantz> ahaha, actually, when I had to get the cabbage rolls out of the oven yesterday the wave of heat was so much that I ended up flailing and backing up fast
[17:54] <@silver> very steak
[17:54] <@Rosencrantz> grandma: you okay there?
[17:54] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> owch
[17:54] <@whetherwoman> huh, someone did a Good Omens/Love Actually crossover, with bonus Mary Poppins
[17:54] <@Azz> such oven
[17:54] <@Lunalein> heee
[17:54] <@silver> much dinner
[17:54] <@Lunalein> the steak came out good
[17:54] <@sleepfighter> very liquids
[17:54] <@whetherwoman> yay shalott! :)
[17:54] <@Lunalein> am happy
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[17:54] <@Morbane> I keep making the mistake of putting something in the oven with a high alcohol content (wine braise, etc) and then peering in the first time I open the door - a giant rush of alcohol vapor to the eyes
[17:54] <@Lunalein> heeee
[17:54] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> yikes!
[17:54] <@Lunalein> yeah
[17:54] <@Lunalein> that happens
[17:54] <@Lunalein> my dinner was very good
[17:55] <@Lunalein> i have to clean the kitchen, though. um. yikes
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[17:55] <@Azz> you know, I wonder if there is such a thing as an alcohol-reclaiming still oven.
[17:55] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> BRB
[17:55] <@Azz> for people who often bake with booze
[17:56] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> B
[17:56] <@Azz> WB
[17:56] <@Lunalein> i know there are ovens with a sabbath setting
[17:56] <@Lunalein> so that you can set it beforehand and it will turn on and off appropriately on the sabbath
[17:57] <@Lunalein> the reason i know this is a friend of mine got one of these
[17:57] <@whetherwoman> does putting food in an oven count as work?
[17:57] <@Rosencrantz> oh, this is rude! http://yuletide.livejournal.com/1177579.html?thread=17896939#t17896939
[17:57] <@Lunalein> turning it on does, whether
[17:57] <@Lunalein> but putting the food in doesn't
[17:57] <@Lunalein> we were having a conversation about a jewish mutual friend celebrating purim
[17:57] <@Lunalein> and my friend said to me, out of the blue
[17:57] <@whetherwoman> i can never figure out the rhyme or reason to those rules. :( probably the main reason i'll always do a more or less half assed shabbat
[17:57] <@Lunalein> "oh, speaking of the jews, did i tell you about my new oven?"
[17:58] <@whetherwoman> hahaha OMG that is awful
[17:58] <@whetherwoman> oh no ::)
[17:58] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> it took me a moment to get it, and then UGH
[17:58] <@whetherwoman> that is really terrible
[17:58] <@Lunalein> i did a literal, like, slow turn around. "did you. just. say that?"
[17:58] <@Lunalein> and he turned BRIGHT red
[17:58] <@Lunalein> and explainend
[17:58] <@whetherwoman> i bet he about fell over
[17:58] <@Lunalein> and we were both in hysterics
[17:58] <@Lunalein> he really did
[17:58] <@whetherwoman> oh gosh poor guy. what a horrible thing to say.
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[17:58] <@sleepfighter> …kkjhkj w-wow
[17:59] <@Rosencrantz> oh my god
[17:59] <@Lunalein> that's gotta be the best accidental awful thing i've ever heard anyone say
[17:59] <@whetherwoman> that is really truly awful, and probably worth teasing him about for the next zillion years
[18:00] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> http://zerooutoffive.blogspot.com/search/label/hipster
[18:00] <@rsf> I don't share enough fandoms with the other pinch hitters. :(
[18:01] <@whetherwoman> is it just my random perception or does it seem like there's more smaller fandoms this year?
[18:01] <@Lunalein> hee, i definitely bring it up from time to time just to keep him on his toes
[18:01] <@Sel> oh, okay, people are posting to the regular YT comm
[18:01] <@whetherwoman> like there's not a ton of stuff in the usually catch-all fandoms
[18:01] <@searchingweasel> whetherwoman, putting food in an oven, in many situations, counts as cooking, which is separately and specifically prohibited on shabbat, separate from the probibition on work
[18:02] <@whetherwoman> searchingweasel, yeah, but if you're putting food in an oven and not turning the oven on...
[18:02] <@searchingweasel> the rule is rather more complicated than i'm stating it, because in Talmudic law it always is more complicated
[18:02] <@bobbingalong> I'm a newbie, but I was assigned and got the fandoms I least expected?
[18:02] <@rsf> Maybe people wanted a challenge?
[18:02] <@whetherwoman> it's always more complicated :)
[18:02] <@whetherwoman> and i'm sure you can always find a rabbi who will tell you somethign different anyway
[18:02] <@bobbingalong> Like, I'm literally the first poster to my assigned fandom...
[18:02] <@whetherwoman> i'm wondering if the new nominating/requesting system worked
[18:02] <@whetherwoman> i mean worked to do that
[18:03] <@bobbingalong> hmm, maybe
[18:03] <@searchingweasel> the act of putting it in an oven is broadly speaking not melacha. if the oven is not hot enough to cook the food, but only hot enough to warm the food, it may be halachically okay as long as you also don't adjust the temperature of the oven.
[18:03] <@Lunalein> i also got the one i least expected!
[18:03] <@Lunalein> in terms of receipt
[18:03] <@bobbingalong> :)
[18:03] <@Lunalein> so that's awesome
[18:03] <@whetherwoman> right, i know a lot of families just leave one burner on all day...
[18:03] <@searchingweasel> but the question of what temperature warms the food and what temperature cooks the food is complicated
[18:03] <@Morbane> I'm puzzled by what you mean, whetherwoman - this is the titular small fandoms exchange
[18:03] <@whetherwoman> or a crockpot
[18:03] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> I least expected to get matched on any of the ones I already wrote for
[18:04] <@whetherwoman> Morbane, I mean it seems like in the past there's been some fandoms that have 20-50 yuletide stories, and some fandoms that have 1, and it seems to me like this year there are more that have 1 and fewer that have more than 20 stories in teh exchange
[18:04] <@searchingweasel> right. as long as you turned the oven on before shabbat and didn't adjust the temperature, and the process only warms rather than cooks, it's possibly okay
[18:04] <@searchingweasel> but there are, as i said, other complications too
[18:04] <@whetherwoman> always :)
[18:04] <@silver> I guess it all shakes out differently every year
[18:05] <@searchingweasel> it depends on how much water is involved in the dish... it depends on when you plan on eating it...
[18:05] <@silver> though I personally think that AoS, Elementary, and Sleepy Hollow stick out like sore thumbs this year
[18:05] <@greenlily> naked matt smith aaaaaaaaaa
[18:05] * @greenlily falls over dead
[18:05] <@whetherwoman> one of my favorite ways I've ever heard Judaism described, is that everyone agrees there are 613 commandments, but there's a lot of disagreement about which things are actually included in those 613. :)
[18:06] <@searchingweasel> yep!
[18:06] <@searchingweasel> as i tell everyone, any question in judaism can be answered the same way: "It's complicated and there's a difference of opinion among Rabbis."
[18:06] <@whetherwoman> two jews, three opinions.
[18:07] <@Lunalein> heee
[18:07] <@searchingweasel> that's if you're lucky
[18:07] <@whetherwoman> yeah, i'm actually kind of surprised that elementary and sleepy hollow were eligible... i guess their fandoms aren't very fic focused yet?
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[18:07] <@whetherwoman> man, i miss torah study... i gotta pick that up again one of these days.
[18:08] <@Morbane> They're unlikely to be eligible next year
[18:08] <@searchingweasel> no matter where you draw the border, there will be things on the borderline.
[18:08] <@Lunalein> yeah, i would have ruled them ineligible on general principles?
[18:08] <@Lunalein> but i'm not a mod!
[18:08] <@Lunalein> and i do not want to be a mod!
[18:08] <@whetherwoman> :)
[18:08] <@Morbane> "general principles"
[18:08] <@Lunalein> as bill cosby once said
[18:08] <@Lunalein> i have seen the boss's job and i don't want it.
[18:08] *** xiuxi has quit IRC: Quit:
[18:08] <@Naraht> I love how half of this conversation is about small fandoms and half about Judaism
[18:08] <@Morbane> Sorry, Luna, but if you rule things out on "general principles" you'd be lynched.
[18:08] <@Naraht> and it all seems perfectly Yulechattish
[18:08] <@Lunalein> i know
[18:08] <@searchingweasel> judaism is a small fandom
[18:08] <@brainwane> haaaa
[18:08] <@whetherwoman> haha, it totally is, isn't it
[18:08] * @Morbane snorts
[18:08] <@Naraht> and two Yuletiders, three opinions
[18:08] <@Lunalein> you guys, a minute ago we were discussing transgender weredragons
[18:08] <@Naraht> so it all works out
[18:08] <@whetherwoman> oo, that reminds me, i should go read the biblefic
[18:09] <@Lunalein> small fandoms and judaism are nothing
[18:09] <@Lunalein> i'm reading the bible fic right now!
[18:09] <@searchingweasel> on AO3, my biggest fandom is Tanakh
[18:09] <@bobbingalong> Ooh, now I'm sorry I missed that convo...
[18:10] <@Hippo-Hsifeng> doing the work of defending the eggs he laid, if someone threatened them on the Sabbath, would still be halachic for a Jewish transmale weredragon, right?
[18:10] <@whetherwoman> wait, are there seriously that few biblefics...?

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