azurelunatic

We went up fucknorth yesterday to help with the house. The handyman was there when we arrived, doing the main bedroom walk-in closet door & frame. Ev was contemplating outlets and had tested some of the breakers to see what part of the house it switched off. She had a tidy grid in her notebook.

She had done a GFCI outlet before we arrived. It was beyond my ken, but Belovedest stepped in and troubleshot. They walked her through it, and through another, and we were feeling pretty good.

Then: The Kitchen Light Switch.

First was the pen-shaped current detector, shining a cheerful red and beeping. Huh. That breaker did not control it. It was supposed to control the kitchen?

Belovedest stationed me in the kitchen with the pen, and hollered from the garage as they flipped breakers. Nothin'. Nothin'. Merry fuckin' nothing.

Unless there is a hidden breaker in there, the only breaker that controls this fucking light is the MAIN BREAKER, WHAT THE FUCK.

Belovedest opened up the switch, swore, summoned me to take pictures, and closed it up again. The colors didn't make sense to them, there were more wires than they were expecting, the ground wire was present but not connected to the switch, there was a wire coming out of the back of the switch in a way that looked integral... NOPE.

The cluster of 3 switches in the dining room was also chaotic.

CALL THE ~~LOCKSMITH~~ ELECTRICIAN!

Ev finished up doing another outlet by herself, we shuffled some stuff around (the portable AC is now in the garage, ready to deploy as needed) and went for a quick hardware store scope-out and then dinner. Yay.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

My guess is that your strangely wired switches connect to more than one breaker. I'd turn off all the breakers and try one circuit at a time (with all the other breakers off) until you find which breakers are providing current to the switches. If you remove the cover off the breaker panel, you could see how the main breaker powers the breaker panel and if any wires bypass the circuit breakers and connect directly to the main breaker.

It might be on a sub-panel, especially if the main panel is full of breakers. If there's multiple circuits feeding a single switch? I've never heard of a double pole single throw switch on AC. Three or four way? sure. A single wall switch that opens or closes two circuits at once? nope nope nope. (they do exist, but for things like two or three phase power, and are big chonky monsters that don't fit into a single gang opening.)

having a switch fed from two different circuits is a good way of shorting two phases, and that's something no one in their right mind wants to deal with. (It's also very NOT CODE.)

Google Lens informs me that the confusing method of wire attachment for two of the three black wires attached to the switch is called "backstab".

Consensus appears to lean to this being a labor-saving replacement for splicing wires with a connector. Spliced wires held together with a screw-on connector cap gives a good connection, backstabbed wires have spring-loaded connector that gives a small area of connection which is failure prone and can be a fire hazard (it heats up). Replace the backstabbed switch with a regular switch and use connectors. This does not explain why you can't seem to find the breaker for this switch.

The other term for them are "backwire". There are varients that do this, but use the screws on the side to hold the wire in. Those are preferred over the spring-loaded backwire outlets and switches.

It sounds like it's either a three-way switch with no ground and someone using a combination of the side screw terminals and a back-wire, or they decided to make the splice with the switch. (which is NOT CODE) If it's a three way switch, one of the lines will always be hot from the switch that's feeding it- If there's another switch that turns the lights on/off that this one does, that's a positive indicator that it's a three way. (and using all black wires for that? Technically code, but confusing as all heck for whoever finds it later on, as you've discovered. usually the 'traveler' is red, but sometimes it's also white- the electrician is supposed to put black tape or marker on it to indicate that it's a traveller, but who knows.)

This site may be useful: https://www.electrical101.com/3way-switch-wiring-using-nm-cable.html

Also, ground wires are technically not needed IF (and it's a BIG IF) the box is already grounded. older switches and outlets lacking a green grounding screw should be replaced with a new one of the same function.

And if it's too much, or seems too complicated, call an electrician- house fires are no fun, and FAR more expensive than having a licensed electrician come out to take a look.

There's an electrician coming eventually. We know when we're outclassed.

There's also a Mystery Switch.

I hate mystery switches; I have a couple in this house that I ultimately ended up capping the wires on and putting blank panels in the cover.

I really want to know the answer to the breaker mystery.

I do as well!

Unless there is a hidden breaker in there, the only breaker that controls this fucking light is the MAIN BREAKER, WHAT THE FUCK.

They WHAT NOW

>:(
>:(
>:(

the ground wire was present but not connected to the switch

nopetopus.gif but every time a new fact emerges, it scuttles faster

Ewwww.

NOPE

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Your userpic remains horribly relevant

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